Συνέντευξη του Πρέσβη της Ελλάδας στην Αλβανία κ. Λεωνίδα Ροκανά στην εφημερίδα Albanian Daily News

Συνέντευξη στην αγγλόφωνη εφημερίδα των Τιράνων "Albanian Daily News" παραχώρησε ο Πρέσβης της Ελλάδας στα Τίρανα, κ. Λεωνίδας Ροκανάς.

Ακολουθεί το πλήρες κείμενο της συνέντευξης:

Greek Ambassador to Tirana Leonidas Rokanas Exclusively for ADN

“Greece is not just a strategic partner for Albania because the relations between us are, indeed, very deep, multi-faceted and close; our relationship, I think, is very basic and very special , indispensable, not only for us but also for the region and for Europe, as a whole . First and foremost, we share long-standing, close and profound people-to-people bonds and exchanges that date back many centuries, so that our societies are interwoven. The Greek ethnic minority , the largest in Albania and the hundreds of thousands of Albanians in Greece are a real, living bridge and vital connecting line between us. Our economies are largely inter-dependent: Greece, traditionally ranks first in investments (FDI) and second in trade in Albania.  Furthermore, we share common strategic goals : Greece has pioneered the drive for a European perspective for the Western Balkans and always stood and will, of course, continue to stand by your side in your quest toward EU integration, as we did during our last Presidency in the first half of 2014. We know and understand each other like no two other countries or peoples do,” Ambassador of Greece to Tirana Leonidas Rokanas has declared in an exclusive interview with Albanian Daily News editor-in-Chief Genc Mlloja.

During the interview, he spoke about Greece’s National Day (March 25th) and its significance, the bilateral relations between the two countries, the recent political and economic developments in Greece as well as in Albania and also about Greece’s support toward Albania’s euro-atlantic perspective. While praising the work done by Albanian Daily News, he said that ADN is a good example of freedom of the press in the country. The full interview is as follows:

Editor-in-Chief Genc Mlloja: March 25th, the Independence Day of Greece will be celebrated differently this year. The first parade to take place under the leftist SYRIZA-led government will not be reminiscent of the ones organized in previous years, since the honorary parade will be combined with various parallel events, including traditional Greek songs and dances at the Syntagma Square of the Greek capital. The crowd will be mixed with state and army officials, as there will be no railings or an elevated platform for officials. Mr. Ambassador, it has reported that the celebrations will have the character of a popular event. How would you comment on all of this?

Ambassador of Greece Leonidas Rokanas: Well, I have this information from the press too. The new methodology , I think, was chosen in order to give the proper significance and splendor to this truly historic day, by stimulating the participation of the citizens themselves , by using this opportunity to bring home to everyone the importance of dignity, solidarity, togetherness and national unity as well as to rejoice in our culture, faith and traditions that have kept us alive during the long years under the  Ottoman yoke. The commemoration will also serve to reflect on who we are as well as ponder the great historic and existential challenges we have faced several times in the past, which,still, we have been able to overcome and prosper; this will serve also as a lesson from which to take heart and face the difficult days ahead.

Greece’s Independence Day, marked and commemorated on March 25th, symbolizes not only the Revolution and the liberation struggle (1821-1830), but signifies the actual rebirth of Greece from its ashes; the war of independence was victorious and led to the creation of the new independent Hellenic state (1830) after almost four hundred years of Ottoman rule.

In the year 1821, Greeks found the spiritual strength and the force to rise against the then mighty Ottoman Empire. In this way, the Greeks, against all odds , and against the stifling anti-revolutionary fervor of the so-called Holy Alliance, pioneered a movement (known as the famous Eastern Question) which led to the liberation of the whole Balkan Peninsula. The Greeks, of course, had revolted many times- sometimes together with Albanians- even before 1821 , but we have been unable to create a breakthrough and bring about a new situation in the Balkans. The Greek Revolution, changed the equilibrium in the Balkan Peninsula despite the negative international environment. The domino effect created by the Greek Revolution led to the creation of other nation-states, not only in the Balkans but in the rest of Europe, as well.

I am proud to say that, at that critical moment , we were not alone , as we had significant support from the philhellenic movement and Philhellenes in Europe and beyond, as in the United States of America, for example. Many renowned and prominent figures should be mentioned here, such as Lord Byron and Percy Shelley, of course, but also King Ludwig I of Bavaria, Chateaubriand, Eugene Delacroix, Victor Hugo, Alexander Pushkin and politicians and diplomats , as well , such as W.E. Gladstone or David Lloyd George, which joined others, in previous times, like J.J. Winckelmann ,F.A. Wolf, W.von Humboldt or even G.E. Lessing .Many Philhellenes, many of them unknown, came to Greece , fought alongside the Greeks and gave their lives for “the Cause”( with a capital C as was famously written by Lord Byron, who actually died in Mesolonghi in 1824).The Greek nation is eternally and profoundly grateful to all of them.

The Revolution teaches us also that when one has the courage to take the the initiative, when one is determined and steadfast for a just cause, no matter the difficulties or the odds against, one will always find friends, allies and people who will display solidarity and be willing to support one’s struggle. Many of the poets, painters, intellectuals and so many others who sided with the liberation struggle of the Greeks did not do so just for us or for the country itself, but for a wider and more significant Cause (with a capital ‘c’). They fought for the ideal of freedom. As I have pointed out before, on this date, if there is one ideal that characterizes and summarizes the entire Greek history and civilization from the times of Homer until today, this is Freedom which has always been the driving force. I would like to refer to one of my favorite recent books, that precisely makes this point, written by the important German historian Christian Meier, under the title “A Culture of Freedom: Ancient Greece and the Origins of Europe”, as I wish also to recommend another similar work by the Cambridge historian Paul Cartledge entitled “Thermopylae: The Battle that changed the world”, in which he considers the ideal of freedom as one of the three most prominent gifts of ancient Greece to the rest of mankind (the other two , according to the scholar are the idea of constant competition and the capacity for limitless criticism to which everything is subjected. These ideas and values are considered to have greatly contributed to western civilization and to progress, in general ). Please permit me also to refer, in this connection, to one of my favorite modern philosophers, Jean-Paul Sartre ,and ,in particular, to his idea (in his classical treatise “L’Etre et le Neant”) that freedom is as fundamental and as primary to man as one’s very bare existence and comes before anything else. As a consequence only we are responsible of the decision about who we are going to be and what meaning we will give to our lives , individual or collective.

Coming back to what we were saying before, when we celebrate this important day, it is useful to remember who we were and what we have done, all what we have gone through. We are here, like the Albanians, for thousands of years. We have the privilege to be one of the most ancient nations. It is a great honor but also a great responsibility and these, freedom and responsibility, I should underline, are like binary stars, they go together. We have to respect our past and who we are but , at the same time, we must always keep in mind that, as we are proud of who we are, we also have a   heavy responsibility to respect ourselves and others, be it individuals or nations. This is a very big lesson from history.

-Enjoying every bit of what you said and looking the sparkle in your eyes when speaking about Greece, does such a feeling about your country and feeling Greek make the Greek people feel superior to other people and countries in the region, considering the fact that they have been pioneers, inventors, etc?

-I will be very sincere. I don’t think that what I said provides the ground for feelings of superiority. Not at all. On the contrary, Greeks , like other nations, are happy and humbled to have contributed to civilization and to the prosperity; also we are happy and proud to have been able to promote the wellbeing and progress of our neighbors, in particular, from which we all gain and all stand to win. This is completely different, of course, from arrogance which must be totally rejected, as a dangerous flaw, a sign of weakness and immaturity, a hubris which, as the ancients rightly believed, ultimately breeds disaster. Rightful pride and arrogance beyond the right measure – on account of superiority-, should not be confused, as it often happens in the Balkans. In fact, human kind has paid dearly for these aberrant feelings of superiority and arrogance. Think back to the two World Wars and the myriad other bloody struggles that have ravaged our region . We paid dearly for our mistakes and we have to learn from them .We should all be proud of who we are and of our accomplishments , but also respect the others and always strive for the common good, which brings us all to a higher level.

Philosophers have come to the conclusion , contrary to what was believed before, that history is unpredictable and devoid of any rational meaning , laws or teleology (i.e. an ultimate goal or an end in history), thus making history the domain ,par excellence ,of freedom; it is important to remember that history, thus, looks like an unwritten book; we are solely responsible for shaping our history and inventing our future (be it utopian or dystopian). I completely share the forward –looking assertion of computer scientist Alan Kay who said about the unpredictable future that “The best way to predict the future is to invent it”. The breathtaking technological developments, in recent years, radically transforming our planet and ourselves, is , indeed, a testimony of this.

-Greece has already entered a new phase of its recovery from the global financial crisis and the new Prime Minister, Mr Alexis Tsipras has pledged to undertake several initiatives to boost the economy. What can you say about the current situation?

-Greece suffered a lot due to the unprecedented crisis -at least since WW II-, which, as a matter of fact, did not start neither in Greece or in Europe, yet it expanded everywhere, due to the imperfections and weaknesses of the international and EU economic and financial system and , more fundamentally, because of the kind of unbridled, neo-liberal globalization prevalent today, which is prone and susceptible to sudden and abrupt international crises of the kind that we are painfully experiencing, still today. In this context, the crisis arrived on Greek shores like a tsunami with a distant epicenter. We were hit hard, harder than anyone else. Not just by the international financial crisis, but also by the effects of the harsh and painful austerity programs (the notorious memorandum, as it is widely known to Greeks) as well as the way these were implemented in my country.

I want to particularly stress that the Greek people have made huge, unheard of sacrifices. All these years, since this crisis began, Greek people have faced the socially and psychologically devastating consequences of a deep and protracted economic recession.  Allow me to point out, for example, that the country’s GDP, during the crisis years after 2009, dropped sharply by around 26 %, an unprecedented fall in Western history that hasn’t been observed ever, in any other country of the globe. There is no other instance of this, in any developed economy , since the Great Depression of 1929-33 , whose dire aftermath we all are aware of. Furthermore, unemployment has reached 27% (EU average is around 11%), while, at the same time, youth unemployment has reached 60% (EU average is around 23%)! Poverty has also increased tremendously and we are actually facing a humanitarian crisis that the government is urgently trying to deal with.

Certainly, however, serious structural reforms were implemented and efforts have been made which are in fact continuing with the aim of  bringing the country back to normalcy. Let us not forget that despite the crisis, Greece remains a relatively rich country, a member of the OECD, with significant natural and human resources. The new government, based on the sacrifices of the Greek people and the country’s resources, is trying to achieve full recovery of the economy, starting with regenerating growth and  above all with the tackling of the most socially catastrophic consequences of the crisis, while remaining inside the Eurozone. As a priority, the government, is immediately  taking resolute action to deal with the urgent needs of the poorest, the most socially hit and vulnerable people and groups.

-Including the immigrants living in Greece and of course Albanians living there…

-Yes, I am referring to all the citizens of Greece, suffering from the crisis, without distinction of ethnic origin or anything else . This includes, of course ,those hit among the Albanian community, our friends living in Greece. I have always said that Albanians in Greece, with relatively few exceptions, are hard-working, family people, with a forward-looking mentality, who want progress for themselves and a prosperous future for their children; we are happy to have them, they are an asset for our country, and for Europe. People like them would be welcome everywhere .So, we have to combat the effects of the crisis and then work to regenerate and to consolidate growth and development. The Greek government is aiming at a better deal with our partners because, through tremendous effort and sacrifice, and having done our homework, I think, we have earned the right to obtain better terms and the equal treatment that we deserve as a member-state, from the European Union.

-Greek-Albanian relations have always been characterized as excellent. Tirana says Greece is a strategic partner. But there are certain pending issues and one of them continues to be the Treaty on bilateral maritime zones. How do you see the overall picture of the bilateral relations during this period of the government of the left-wing forces?

-The two governments have made many efforts to improve and maintain relations at the highest level. There is great potential, unused potential, which has to be actively exploited. We are inextricably linked ,both geographically as well as otherwise. As already said, we are also tied together historically. Both our nations are ancient and we have been living together in the same region and cooperating closely from time immemorial . Look back at history, and you will notice  the existence of important Greek cities in this land, already from the seventh century BC (i.e. take Apollonia and Epidamnus (Dyrrachion) or today’s Durres, or other magnificent ancient sites like that of Vouthrotόn (Butrint), which includes a Hellenistic city). We have been together in this area and in Europe ,since that time. Because Europe was also here. This is one of the basic elements to remember.

The second element is that our economies are completely bound together and inter-linked. Greece for many years( except only in 2011) ranks first in Albania regarding investments , notwithstanding the recent crisis. There are over 1 billion Euros invested by Greek companies in Albania, which represents 26% of all foreign investment in the country , creating employment and transferring  skills and know-how. I find it remarkable that Greek investments continued to go up in value in 2012-14, despite the continuing crisis at home. However, on the other hand, in order for business to flourish, an appropriate, predictable and friendly business environment is required, and we are working on that with the new Albanian government. The remittances from abroad, especially from Greece, continue to be an important source of revenue for Albania-despite their relative decline due mainly to the crisis- and even those, relatively few, Albanians who returned home are an asset for their country thanks to the skills that many have acquired in my country. It is also important that Greece for years ranks second in trade( after Italy).

Please consider, that, as in the past, the expected recovery in Greece , through the creation of growth and jobs, will also necessarily mean additional wealth and prosperity in Albania. Hence, we should further vigorously promote economic relations. The Greek Embassy will continue to be intensively involved with all competent Ministries and the Greek  business community and investors to widen and intensify bilateral economic relations, which generate wealth for both our peoples. I will be an ally of all those who want to expand the economic ties between our two countries.

Third and most importantly, we Greeks and Albanians are also privileged with close and deep human relations, people-to-people ties and bonds which, as I already mentioned, are very ancient and important. I believe, in fact, that Greeks and Albanians have the deepest relations to have ever existed between any two nations in the entire globe. In the 1990s, a unique phenomenon occurred in Albania, when a huge number of its citizens (around 1,5 million) left the country, migrating, predominantly, to Greece and Italy, where they lived and prospered. In this respect, I wish to stress the existence of the ethnic Greek minority in Albania, of which we are very proud and which also constitutes a living bond and bridge between our two countries and peoples and a positive force in favor of the European future of this country. The constant improvement of the terms of existence of our minority and its rights and prosperity are of primary significance for all Greeks and an important element of the EU conditionality (Copenhagen criteria). I should also mention that we have family relations, as well, since we have so many mixed families. Basically, we know and understand each other like no other two countries or peoples do. We are so tied together that we have a duty to create a new reality.

Are there problems? Well, of course there are problems (e.g. the Agreement on the Delimitation of the Maritime Zones, the issue of the military cemeteries in Albania for the proper exhumation and burial of all those soldiers fallen during the Greek-Italian War of 1940-41, issues related to the Greek Minority etc). Problems are a fact of life, a natural occurrence, especially among neighbors. Our duty is to address these problems together effectively and find solutions in a spirit of cooperation and mutual understanding. Personally, my only ambition and reward will be just to be useful and be able to act as a paragon and hopefully a catalyst for peace and cooperation between our two countries and peoples.

In this respect, I am happy to stress that  there have been a number of important high-level visits of Greek officials to Albania and Albanian officials to Greece, which have helped to reconfirm the political commitment of both sides to achieve progress and have also boosted dialogue on important issues.  I would point out in particular, the visit to Albania of the former President of the Hellenic Republic Mr Karolos Papoulias, in 2013, along with visits by the former Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Venizelos (one of them in the capacity and during the Greek Presidency of the Council of Ministers of the EU in the first half of 2014) and other Greek Ministers (of Defense, Education, Energy and others) including most recently, the visit of the Alternate Minister of Foreign Affairs for European Issues of the new Greek government Mr. Nikolaos Chountis. At the same time, more than ten Albanian Ministers have visited Athens during this and the past year.  This is not business as usual. On the contrary, this frequency of exchanges demonstrate the importance that both sides attach to our relations, as well as our common determination to move forward.

Please note that we have already delivered concrete results.  The difficult long-standing issue regarding toponyms in all official documents of either country has been resolved in a mutually acceptable way and according to international standards and best practices.  This has already benefitted the daily life of many citizens living in both countries. We have also reengaged in dialogue on key issues, by reinstating the long-dormant Joint Committees of experts from both countries regarding the (a) Revision of school textbooks, (b) Transboundary Freshwater issues, and (c) Road transport. The new Greek government has clearly declared its readiness to continue working towards improving relations.

At this point, I wish to stress that the European perspective of Albania, is also the cardinal guiding principle of our relations and the strategic link between us. The aim of enlargement, particularly in the Western Balkans, including, of course, our neighbor Albania (as well as Kosovo), has been a core principle of our foreign policy  at least since the EU summit during the Greek Presidency in 2003, when it constituted the main topic at the famous “Agenda of Thessaloniki”.  Ever since, Greece has been by your side, supporting your efforts here and actively promoting the enlargement agenda in Bruxelles. The most recent evidence of Greece’s support toward Albania’s EU perspective, if not its culmination thus far, was that the official EU candidate status was attributed to Albania during-and due to the efforts-of the recent Greek Presidency of the Council of Ministers of the EU, in 2014. In this regard, Albania should also continue and accelerate its reforms, according to the existing EU agenda and relevant criteria, which will undoubtedly radically transform your country for the better. In this arduous path, what is required is serious determination as well as confidence in yourselves, as you have the necessary intellectual and spiritual resources, as well as the support to move forward to the EU.

I need to underline that we are also both involved in very important regional projects, including with regard to the much needed common goal of improving connectivity in our region. There is no doubt that we have a common energy future and the TAP pipeline project is, of course, of crucial importance, in this regard, to all the countries involved and to the energy security of the EU as well. Especially important, of course, is also the Adriatic-Ionian Strategy within the EU framework (EUSAIR), which was initiated during our recent Presidency of the Council of Ministers of the EU (first half of 2014) and completed during the next Italian Presidency.

What I want to stress and what is evidenced by everything that I mentioned previously, is that our two countries have very special relations. Greece shares an indispensable relationship with Albania, not just a strategic partnership; we are also neighbors and allies, with historic ties, interdependent economies and constant interactions, in all fields, between our peoples, our business communities and our governments.  Crucially, however, we share a common future and, therefore, we have a common responsibility to shape it together, but also to play a leading, constructive role for peace, stability and prosperity in our region and beyond.

- Mr. Ambassador, how do you consider the political situation in Albania when there is a return to hostility between the majority and the opposition, with the latter boycotting normal parliamentary life?

- Well, it is not my role, as a foreign Ambassador, nor do I consider myself wise enough to give advice on the internal political life of this country. What I can say coincides with what the European Union and all the member countries say, which is that it is vital that the government and opposition cooperate effectively in generating and implementing the necessary reforms, as quickly as possible, and by so doing to transform the country and to move it closer to the common goal of EU integration, which is supported by all political parties and the overwhelming majority of the Albanian people. Combating organized crime and corruption, for example, is a prerogative of all countries, within the overarching goal of the rule of law, including as regards its economic component. This will benefit your country and move it forward. Even if the EU did not grant you such advice or recommendations, you should do it anyway, since it is necessary for your own country’s sake. However, for these common and important goals to be achieved, it is crucial to have solidarity, constructive dialogue and cooperation among all Albanian political forces. All the political and social forces should be respected and should participate in this process.

- Albania speaks of a Balkans Peninsula where there is no harmony among the regional countries and the EU with regard to Ukraine and the stance towards Russia, etc. Also, official Tirana sometimes in apparent push tells Brussels that the integration process of the Western Balkans, among which Albania, should be quickened hinting that every prolongation can bring about new developments? How do you ‘read’ these stances?

- I will say that the Balkans have always been one of the most sensitive regions and somehow involved, sometimes crucially, in all significant moments of European history. It remains, of course, a sensitive and important area. We are situated in a triangle of instability; look to the North, as you mentioned, to the situation in Ukraine, or in the Middle East and Northern Africa. There is significant and dangerous instability in the wider region. Under these circumstances, South Eastern Europe is, once more, crucial. We have to strive to ensure stability and peace. On the other hand, there is the global threat of terrorism. We recently had the Informal SEECP Ministerial in Tirana, under the Albanian Chairmanship, which concluded that one of the answers to this serious problem is to combat the underlying causes, such as rectifying social ills and ensuring economic prosperity. We also have to push the enlargement agenda, given its stabilizing role particularly in our area which in turn is beneficial to all, not only to our immediate region, but to the EU in general. Greece’s role and our neighbors’ role, are very specific under these surrounding circumstances.  The European Union is still in a process of transformation and having faced the dire effects of the crisis is moving, hopefully, towards growth again, which will generate more quality growth and prosperity. This is what the Greek government is currently focusing on, as well. However, in my opinion, enlargement, especially in the Balkans, in tandem with the deepening of the EU, are crucial so that the Union becomes more like the forefathers of the EU envisaged it. In this way, the Union must still fight for its social model, for more democracy, equality, cohesion, solidarity, as well as for efficiency and competitiveness in order to be more prosperous and in order to be able to make a difference in the international arena and on a global scale. Enlargement and deepening go together. The message is that we have to be more proactive, jump on the train of the EU and energetically participate in the enlargement and deepening processes of the Union.

Lastly, I want to congratulate you for your newspaper as you have been very useful and constructive with the diplomatic community and facilitate our work here. I want to encourage you to continue to be as comprehensive and objective as possible in your coverage.

Albanian Daily News is a very good example of press freedom here, which is very good. But again, congratulations and tell me what we can do to promote the freedom of the press, as the press is, of course, a fundamental function of democracy. I think Albanian Daily News has been successful and objective in presenting the public opinion.