AL. PAPAIOANNOU: To begin with, good afternoon. Today we are meeting in a different hall, which is significant for all diplomats, since it is here that their entrance exams have been taking place, at least for the last 25 years, so you can imagine.
And allow me to say, this is my first time sitting on this side of the table, which is a little odd. Due to the size of the hall, it is not easy to have direct contact, but due to the pandemic and in order to have enough space for all of you, as far as that is possible, from now on the briefing of diplomatic correspondents will be taking place here.
First, on two procedural issues:
- The next briefing will take place on October 13. Since there is a serious possibility that I will be travelling to Washington that day, we will probably need to adjust the time.
- Since last time you expressed interest in asking more than one questions, I am at your disposal for more questions, but being well aware of the limited time you have, the briefing should be completed no later than one hour after it starts.
Also, please ask one question at a time so that anyone who wants to speak can do so. If time allows, I would be happy to answer more questions.
And something else to add, please. If it is possible, for the records we keep, please, state your name as well as the medium you represent.
In the past few days, we had, I would say, a packed agenda.
The Minister made a statement regarding his contacts in New York on Monday. Without wishing to repeat what he stated only the day before yesterday, I would like to point out some highlights of his contacts, since, as you know, he also participated in the meetings of the Prime Minister. But of course, it does not fall within my competence to talk about the meetings of the Prime Minister.
First of all, the aim of the contacts was to open up to countries with which we do not maintain traditional relations.
To be precise, with some of them there were no relations at all, at least at the level of Foreign Ministers.
As the Minister noted, these contacts focused on three key points, on which depending on the interlocutor, of course, the appropriate emphasis was placed.
The first point concerns the UN Security Council.
I don’t need to emphasize the importance of having our voice heard in the UN Security Council, both directly and indirectly. And this applies to all its members, both permanent and non-permanent ones.
In this context, the Minister has embarked on a continuous effort to inform these states about the positions of our country on various issues of immediate interest to us.
Let me make a digression here. In his statement, the Minister spoke about contacts with 12 of the 15 non-permanent members for the period 2021 -2022. And because there was a question, how can they be 15, I will explain. There are five permanent members of the Security Council, while ten are non-permanent members. Well, in 2021 there are ten non-permanent members, of which five will continue through 2022 and the other five will be replaced. So, it is five members for the period 2021 -2022, five for the period 2020 -2021 and five which will continue for the period 2022 -2023. That is why for the period 2021 -2022 they come out 15. And the Minister has met the Foreign Ministers of 12 of them.
At the same time, in his meetings the Minister promoted Greece's candidacy for a non-permanent seat in the UN Security Council for the 2025-2026 term. The elections will be held in autumn 2024. And let me also remind you here that Greece has been elected twice to the Security Council, first in 1952-53, if I am not mistaken, and then in 2005-2006.
This effort is already bearing fruit. For instance, yesterday we received a note verbale from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Costa Rica, informing us of the country's decision to unilaterally support our candidacy. Meaning, they have asked nothing in return.
Let me recall that the Minister of Foreign Affairs met with his Costa Rican counterpart last week.
I would also like to stress the importance we attach to various regional organizations. Greece has been participating in the International Organization of the Francophonie for years. I should also point out that the Secretary General of the Francophonie is the former Rwandan Foreign Minister. And let me add at this point, that the representative of the Francophonie in the United Nations is a Greek Ambassador who took office a few months ago. In fact, according to what the Secretary General said to the Minister, with whom they met on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly, she is doing an excellent job.
Respectively, Greece was given associate observer status in the Community of Portuguese Language Countries last July. The pro tempore presidency of the Community for the next two years was assumed by Angola last July.
And let me also say that in this organization, in addition to the very dear friend and European partner Portugal, other important countries participate also, such as Brazil, as well as various other African and Asian countries.
I should also note that the Minister’s Latin American interlocutors, Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama, were particularly receptive to the prospect of Greece attaining observer status in the regional organization SICA (Sistema de la Integracion Centroamericana), a status which, incidentally, has been given to Turkey.
And since we are discussing regional organizations, let me remind you that Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Dendias, signed cooperation protocols in Riyadh last April and in Cairo last July, with the Gulf Cooperation Council and the Arab League respectively.
And of course, he met with both the Secretary-General of the Gulf Cooperation Council and the Secretary-General of the Arab League in New York last week.
The reason for all I have been saying is that for Greece, a country facing daily provocations, no country is too small to be ignored. And no vote should be considered negligible.
And since we are talking about small countries, let me also point out that the President of the General Assembly is also the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Maldives. And of course, there is no need to remind you of the country of origin of the former President of the General Assembly.
The second point was the prospects of bilateral and - of course – economic cooperation, but also the shared values that unite us with these countries. First, the prospects for enhancing bilateral economic cooperation and investment were discussed with several countries. Greeks have long been and continue to be present in many African countries. The African continent is the region with the fastest economic growth at the moment.
Algeria is the fourth largest economy in Africa. Egypt, by the way, is the second. Ghana, with the Foreign Minister of which the Minister also met, is the eighth, and Angola the tenth.
Respectively, Mexico is the second largest economy in Latin America. Panama, which, of course, is particularly important for our country also because of shipping, is the tenth largest economy in the region.
Vaccine diplomacy was also discussed during the Minister’s contacts. Greece has already donated vaccines to various African countries - and at this point I am referring only to African countries - such as Egypt, Libya, Tunisia (in fact, the Minister delivered the vaccines himself when he visited the country a few weeks ago), Kenya, Rwanda, and of course, donations to other countries are planned.
We should not overlook the importance of these actions. Even a symbolic donation is important. In fact, it is telling that the Minister of Foreign Affairs of one of the African countries Mr. Dendias met with told him that Greece is the first European country to offer vaccines.
Let us not underestimate these actions. We should also bear in mind that one of the countries with the largest network of diplomatic missions in Africa at the moment is Turkey.
With these countries, during these meetings, the Ministers also discussed shared values. And of course, you will ask me: what do Greece, the Maldives and Costa Rica have in common? My immediate answer is, among other things: commitment to the principles of the International Law of the Sea.
But in his contacts the Minister did not confine himself to these issues only. He spoke about climate change and its repercussions on global security, the role of women in peace and security, the status of women in Afghanistan, freedom of the press and other issues.
The third point that the Minister discussed was common challenges, the areas that could potentially cause instability in their wider region and of course in Europe as well; starting with Afghanistan, which he discussed with his Kyrgyz counterpart. He also participated in a closed meeting organized by Austria, with the participation of Afghanistan’s neighbouring countries.
Libya has been the focus of various contacts, first with the Algerian Foreign Minister. And of course, Greece participated, even if as an observer this time, in the conference on Libya organized by the Foreign Ministers of France, Germany and Italy.
During the Minister’s contacts, developments in the Sahel region were also examined, especially with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of The Gambia. Furthermore, the Minister had contacts, at both bilateral and multilateral level, with traditional friends and allies of Greece, such as Cyprus, of course – I cannot even recall how many times he met with Mr. Christodoulides - Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and of course, France, of which we will talk about shortly.
What struck me most was the fact that these were not merely traditional bilateral meetings - and I had the experience of being present in several of them - but rather an exchange of views between friends and a discussion of prospects for developing bilateral and multilateral cooperation.
I say this because it is not self-evident. These relationships are cultivated. As the Minister said a few months ago, when he goes to Cairo, he knows where all the doors are, how he will move, where he will enter. He feels at home.
And I want to emphasize that. To get to this point, we had to invest; the Minister has invested in these relations and will certainly continue to do so.
In these contacts with friends and allies, of course, developments in the wider Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East were reviewed in depth. The Minister had the opportunity to brief on the ongoing Turkish provocative actions, which he also did with his European counterparts. In fact, he showed them a map of the area where the ‘Nautical Geo’ research vessel flying the Maltese flag was harassed by a Turkish naval vessel. Because that’s what’s important; saying that the harassment took place 10 nautical miles east of Crete is one thing, seeing it on the map is another.
And in the face of such a provocation, which is certainly not in keeping with fundamental rules of logic, let alone international law, even his most skeptical interlocutors had nothing to say.
Of course, all the above were also outlined by the Minister to NATO Secretary-General, Mr. Stoltenberg. Without going into details, I would like to add that contrary to various reports that have come to light, the path to normalization of relations between Turkey and other countries in the region seems to be quite long and the reason for this, at least from what we’ve heard, is the continuing Turkish conduct on various fronts, which of course does not appear to have changed.
Apart from his official meetings, 17 in total – that is, the official, the bilateral ones – the Minister had a number of other informal meetings, because, after all, the gathering of so many high-level officials in a small part of the city facilitates such meetings. I cannot even recall how many Ministers and Heads of State were staying in his hotel alone; at least two Heads of State.
As the Minister has stated, he also met privately with the US Under Secretary of State, Ms. Victoria Nuland.
So much for the UN General Assembly
As you know, Mr. Dendias travelled to Paris yesterday for literally a few hours, in order to sign, together with the Minister of National Defence Mr. Panagiotopoulos, in the presence of the Prime Minister, the Greece-France agreement on establishing a strategic partnership for defence and security cooperation.
Let me outline briefly some points. But before I do that, I would like to make a further important point, since the agreement has already been signed. It had been in the making for about two years and Mr. Dendias, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, saw to it that its key provisions were well under way, took shape, I would say, a long time ago.
The final touches came last week and, in this context, the informal meeting of the Minister with his French counterpart, Mr. Le Drian in New York played also an important role.
Undoubtedly, the most important point of the agreement, Article 2, is a mutual assistance clause in the event of an armed attack on the territory of one of the two parties, which includes the use of military means. The agreement speaks of armed force, that is the term used precisely in the agreement and it is always compatible with Article 51 of the UN Charter, which of course refers to the right of self-defense.
This is the first time that such a clause has been included in a bilateral agreement between Greece and a European partner or NATO ally. And of course, it creates a new environment in terms of protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of our country.
Essentially, it builds on and also goes beyond, I would say, Article 42.7 of the Lisbon Treaty, which concerns all the member states of the European Union. Here we are talking about a clause of mutual assistance between the largest military force in the European Union, which now provides a defense umbrella to our country.
A similar clause exists in the agreement signed by Mr. Dendias, about a year ago, with his UAE counterpart, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
It is also highlighted that, at the initiative of the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs, incorporated in the preamble to the agreement is a reference to the common values and principles governing the two countries, with a clear reference to respect for International Law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, UNCLOS.
The agreement between Greece and France contains, in addition to strategic and military cooperation, a special chapter on close cooperation in foreign policy which provides for regular contacts between the Foreign Ministers of the two countries and coordination, in general, between the two ministries in both bilateral and multilateral frameworks, such as the European Union, NATO, the UN and so on. This is something which, of course, should not be underestimated.
Finally, allow me to say something about European autonomy, which is also mentioned in the agreement.
Greece has always been and will always be in favour of the deepening of the European integration process, including of course, the defence sector. We attach particular importance to the protection of external borders from any kind of threat.
At the same time, we believe that the European Union should develop military capabilities that will enable it to act autonomously and to deal with crises that threaten its security and territorial integrity, without necessarily having to seek the assistance of others.
This position is neither incompatible nor contrary to the obligations undertaken by Greece in the framework of NATO. Greece will continue to fully comply with its obligations under the Washington Treaty.
It is rather self-evident, but I will emphasize it, that this agreement, the Greek-French agreement, is also compatible with the European obligations of our country.
At this point, allow me to step out of line and paraphrase a slogan that I recall from the 1980s and it is about developing military capabilities. Greece insists on NATO, unlike other allies.
I would also like to emphasize that the strengthening of European defence strengthens NATO's European arm and contributes to a better burden-sharing, as it is commonly said, between the two sides of the Atlantic, which has been a political commitment of all NATO allies since 2014.
In this context, yesterday's agreement is also fully aligned and compatible with the spirit, but also the letter of the joint statement signed in 2018 in Brussels by the Presidents of the European Council and the European Commission and the Secretary General of NATO.
Last but definitely not least, as the British say, the agreement is purely defensive in nature and is not directed against anyone.
And before you ask me the answer is yes, the United States were aware of this agreement. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Dendias, had seen to it. And of course, I imagine you must have seen the State Department’s reaction, at least I saw it this morning, which of course satisfies us very much.
And since we are talking about the USA, let us talk about the Minister’s schedule.
Tomorrow he will address the Athens Democracy Forum, and in particular the Symposium on “Combating Racism and Hate Speech”. This intervention will take place in the framework of the Greek Presidency of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, an initiative which, in my humble opinion, has not received the publicity it deserves and which should be promoted at every opportunity.
And to add to this point, a relevant announcement has been issued regarding the symposium to be held tomorrow, in addition to the participation of the Minister. You can see it, as it came out this morning.
The Minister will then have an informal meeting with Belarusian opposition leader Ms. Tsikhanouskaya, whom, you may remember, he met last spring.
On Friday, the day after tomorrow, he will receive his Hungarian counterpart Peter Szijjártó. The meeting will be followed by the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding on cooperation between the Diplomatic Academies of the two countries and joint statements to the press at about 13.45.
Next Tuesday the Minister is expected to attend the briefing of the Parliament by the Prime Minister on the Greece-France agreement.
Then, on the same day, he will participate in the meeting of the Prime Minister with the President of North Macedonia, who will be on a visit to Greece.
On Tuesday, October 12, a week later, he is expected to meet with the President of the House of Representatives of Cyprus.
Finally, on Thursday, October 14, the Minister will be in Washington for a bilateral meeting with his American counterpart Mr. Blinken, as well as for the launch of the Greece-US strategic dialogue.
Of course, he is expected to have more contacts, but at the moment the schedule is still being formulated. At the next briefing, which will normally take place on Wednesday, October 13, I will definitely have more details.
So as not to keep you in suspense concerning the renewal of the Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement (MDCA), the relevant negotiations are ongoing, in an excellent atmosphere, as is appropriate between two strategic partners such as Greece and the USA.
Of course, as they say about all negotiations, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. And contrary to what US President Wilson said in January 1918, negotiations are not open. And let me add: they are not commented upon either.
Well, regarding the schedule of Alternate Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Varvitsiotis, I would like to point out the following:
On Thursday, September 30, he will participate in the meeting of the Prime Minister with his Slovak counterpart, who will be visiting Greece.
On Tuesday, October 5 and Wednesday, October 6 he will accompany the Prime Minister to the EU-Western Balkans Summit to be held in Brdo pri Kranju - if I pronounce it right-, Slovenia.
Finally, on Friday, October 8, he will receive in Athens Karoline Edtstadler, the Federal Minister of Austria for the EU and Constitution. Statements to the press will follow. Of course, you will be informed.
Regarding the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Kostas Fragogiannis, the following have been scheduled:
On Sunday, October 3 and Monday, October 4, he will travel to Libya. His agenda includes meetings with government officials, holding a bilateral business forum and signing an MOU between Enterprise Greece and the Libyan Investment Authority, as well as the inauguration of the Greek pavilion at the “Libya Build” International Fair.
On Tuesday, October 5, he will participate, via videoconference, in the OECD Ministerial Meeting to be held in Paris.
On Thursday, October 7, he will travel to Astypalea in order to participate in a working meeting to be attended by officials from the Ministries of Environment and Energy and Infrastructure and Transport, the South Aegean Region and local authorities with executives of the German car industry. The topic of the meeting is the shared public and private transport and mobility.
On Tuesday, October 12, he will make a working visit to Cyprus and finally, on Thursday, October 14, he will accompany the Minister to the United States.
Regarding Deputy Minister Mr. Katsaniotis, I would like to note that he will go to Mystras on Saturday, October 2, where he will officially open the International Conference titled: Byzantium and China - Relationships and Parallels.
The Minister will also address this conference, via video recorded message.
That’s all from me today.
I know I may have tired you. Pardon me but we had to touch upon a lot and important issues.
Thank you for your attention and as always, I am at your disposal.
Please, Mr. Mangiriadis. Let’s start over here.
A. MANGIRIADIS: Good afternoon, Mr. Spokesperson. Apostolos Mangiriadis from SKAI. I heard you say that the negotiations for the renewal of the defence agreement with the United States are open, they should not be commented on and that they are obviously still in the process of elaboration. Yesterday, however, a State Department spokesman noted that significant progress has been made and there has been a new updated plan for an indefinite extension of the agreement. I had the feeling that we were talking about a five-year renewal. What exactly does this mean? Thanks.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I thank you very much. As I told you, negotiations are taking place in a great atmosphere, as befits. Let me emphasize this: there is a constructive and excellent climate. There is no doubt about this.
As for the duration of the agreement now, let me refer to what the Prime Minister said in the press conference yesterday.
I think that speaks for itself. I do not have anything else to add or comment at the moment.
P. MICHOS: Good morning, Mr. Spokesperson. Panagiotis Michos from “TO VIMA” newspaper. I would like to ask you about the defence assistance clause with France. If sovereign rights are challenged, what does this agreement provide for? And if there is a challenge to our sovereignty and to our sovereign airspace, what does it provide for? Thank you very much.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I thank you. Look, the treaty, at least in my humble opinion, is quite clear. I have the text here. It states that "the Parties shall provide each other with aid and assistance with all appropriate means at their disposal, and if deemed necessary, by the use of armed force, if they jointly establish that an armed attack against one of the two countries on its national territory is taking place, in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations ".
Well, to me Article 2 is clear - it refers to the territory, with everything it entails. And in fact, territory means the whole territory. I will stop there. I believe that, beyond that, I do not want to get into interpretations. To me, I am telling you, it's clear what this article means. Thanks.
K. BALI: Kaki Bali from “AVGI” newspaper. I would like to continue with the colleague's question as follows: suppose we have a Turkish frigate or a Vietnamese frigate, no matter the country, which sails 6.1 miles off Crete. Is this clause being activated or not? Since everything is so clear.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: What does the frigate do? I am asking because I did not understand the question. It is a frigate ...
K. BALI: Yes, and it’s fully armed. I don’t know much about military issues. It is armed, sailing 6.1 miles off Crete, off our territorial waters. What happens then? Is there a reason for the clause to be activated or not?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: The defence assistance clause, I will repeat it again, is clear. It speaks of armed attack, armed force. It seems to me that it is quite clear.
SP. SOURMELIDIS: Thanks. Sourmelidis from KONTRA CHANNEL. Let me continue with this question. There is a Greek research vessel at 8 miles off Crete within the Greek EEZ that has been defined, which we have agreed with Egypt. And a Turkish research vessel is attacking. Is this a case for activating the clause or not? It is an armed attack on a Greek ship in the Greek EEZ. Thanks.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: First of all, let me tell you that I do not answer hypothetical questions. Secondly, allow me to answer once again, no matter how tiring I might get: Article 2 is clear to me.I will not start making interpretations here now. Beyond that I have nothing else to add.
Thank you very much.
TH. ARGYRAKIS: Regarding the map of the Turkish harassment shown by Mr. Dendias - since you are talking about 10 nautical miles and because there were too many reports of 6 miles, even of 2.5 miles off Crete- finally can you give us some information on what this map showed? How far did the Turkish violations of the Turkish frigate, Oruc Reis -if I am not mistaken- go?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: This map was a map of Greece and the Minister marked a dot at 10 nautical miles east of Crete, showed it to them and said: Crete is here and here is the dot showing where the harassment took place, between Crete and Kasos.
The Minister continued saying that this is unacceptable and defies any notion of international law but also all logic. And he stated the obvious, that this also happened in an area that is delimited by the Greek-Egyptian agreement.
TH. ARGYRAKIS: So, the Turkish vessel did not enter... That is, there is no such information that the Turkish vessel entered?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Excuse me, Mr. Argyrakis, thank you very much, I answered your question. I will give the floor to Mr. Manolis, please.
D. MANOLIS: Dimitris Manolis from the ATHENS NEWS AGENCY, thank you Mr. Spokesperson. I would like to ask… you said that we had informed the United States on the agreement with France. Had other European partners been informed?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I spoke about the United States and allow me to confine myself to that. I do not wish to expand on this right now. The United States is certainly a very important ally. Beyond that, I cannot go into details about what the Minister discussed with his European counterparts.
TH. THEODOROU: Theodoros Theodorou for “TO PONTIKI” newspaper. Mr. spokesperson, I will put aside, at least for a while, the lecture on International Law and touch upon issues that are more mundane and trivial. Looking at the meetings that took place in New York, I have noticed that there were not any meetings with Oman, Kuwait and Qatar.
As for the meetings with the Emirates, which are numerous, immediately after the meetings of the Minister, there was a report in Bloomberg that the Emirates is discussing new investments in Turkey.
Regarding Egypt, which is like home to the Minister and every Greek Foreign Minister, I am informed that a summit has been scheduled in Kavala, to which the Egyptians have not yet responded while the Cypriots have.
As far as the agreement on diplomatic cooperation is concerned, I am particularly concerned because you have put too much emphasis on the defence, while in my opinion you should refer with particular emphasis to the diplomatic cooperation that has been decided and stop there, since we are in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. It is others who are responsible for answering about the details of the defence cooperation.
And as for the meeting and the remarks you made, that the initiative on the Holocaust and related activities is not very well known, I would like to ask you if the Minister will be accompanied to his trip to the United States by -among others- Mr Lazaris, the ambassador, who is in charge of this matter?
Thank you very much. If you do not have any answers now, you can answer back in writing, if you are not available now. Thank you very much.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.
TH. THEODOROU: (speaking off the microphone)
A. PAPAIOANNOU: You know, this is what the Americans say, once a marine, always a marine. You are right, we had been colleagues for many years. Okay, I'll take them in order.
Oman, Kuwait, Qatar: No, neither we nor they had requested for a meeting. The Minister had meetings with Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain. I'm talking about countries that…
TH. THEODOROU: (speaking off the microphone)
A. PAPAIOANNOU: The meetings? Yes, there was a request for them and even the Secretary General of the GCC asked for it, who, if I am not mistaken, is a Kuwaiti.
He asked for it himself and they had a very interesting discussion for the whole wider region and no more needs to be said. I will tell you something, with one reservation. I will tell you why: A reservation because it goes beyond the two-week schedule.
A visit to Oman is being scheduled for late October. I do not remember the exact date now, I think it is 26 or 27, somewhere there.
That’s all for that.
As for Emirates-Turkey: allow me not to comment. But what I would like to comment on, to point out, is that the Minister saw the Emirati Minister of Industry and Advanced Technology - the Emirati Foreign Minister was not in New York for personal reasons - with whom they discussed various political issues, but of course they also discussed the deepening of economic cooperation and possible investment prospects in Greece and in fact the meeting was excellent. I had never attended a meeting with this Minister again. It was really a very interesting and very friendly meeting.
Regarding the trilateral Summit of Greece, Cyprus and Egypt.
A trilateral meeting was held in this format in New York. In fact, it was convened by Mr. Shoukry, the Egyptian Foreign Minister, and the preparation of the Summit, which will take place in Greece in October, was also discussed.
At the moment, however, on the one hand it does not fall within my competence, on the other hand, I have no further details to give you.
TH. THEODOROU: (speaking off the microphone)
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Well, you are absolutely right about the Greek-French agreement.
For me, as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs the key part for our "home" is cooperation - it is on the one hand the strategic cooperation which includes Article 2, that of mutual assistance, which is a matter of defence, but it is also political, so to speak. It is not just defence… But beyond that, there is a special chapter on foreign policy cooperation. I referred to that, but you are right, I was very brief. It is extremely interesting and important that under the agreement, the Greek and French diplomats, the delegations should have regular contacts, not only at the level of Foreign Ministers, but also at staff level. It is also very important that they shall coordinate their positions in various international organizations. For those of us who have served over there, that is very important, that is, to make a preparation, and as far as that is possible, to coordinate our positions.
This constitutes a very important development because, of course, France could now support – it does that already in many cases- our positions on various issues. France certainly has a decisive role within the European Union. And it is a permanent member of the Security Council. We shouldn’t overlook that at all.
And, of course, it is an ally, another important ally within NATO, beside all the other organizations we participate in together - OSCE, Francophonie and so on.
But I agree whole-heartedly. Sometimes we forget to talk about our "home" but we should place more emphasis on it. They almost go unnoticed, so to speak.
Regarding the composition of the Minister's delegation in Washington. It's too early at the moment to know. And I do not know what the issues, what the agenda will be, that is, I mean, besides the bilateral ones. Of course, some of them are obvious.
And let me add that, in addition to the bilateral meeting the Minister will have with Mr. Blinken, which has already been scheduled, and any other bilateral meetings that he will have there, there is also the strategic dialogue, which covers a wide range of issues and many other ministries will be involved. It will be held, in fact, with physical presence for the first time since 2019. So, there will be wider participation from the Greek side. Now, who will participate, this is something I do not have at my disposal at the moment.
Forgive me for taking so long.
A. VOUDOURI: Good morning, Mr. Spokesperson. Thank you so much. Yesterday there was a leak from Brussels to Reuters News Agency about the inability of the European Union to overcome the impasse regarding the adoption of a joint declaration at the forthcoming European Union-Western Balkans Summit - which will be attended by the Prime Minister, as you informed us - in which the EU would reiterate its the commitment made 18 years ago in Thessaloniki for the full accession of all the Western Balkans countries. Obviously, I do not want you to comment on the leak, but I want to ask, first, if you are concerned about the indisputable fact that the EU can no longer ensure the full accession of the Western Balkans countries. And if you allow me, what would the political cost be for Greece from the possible non-accession of these countries, mainly of the non-accession of its neighbouring countries. If I remember correctly, in the previous briefing you told us that this remains a strategic priority.
Thank you very much.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I thank you very much.
Indeed, it remains a strategic priority. I do not want, now, to speculate on that because the meeting is scheduled for October 8 and, as is usual with such issues, negotiations continue until the last minute. I believe that a compromise solution is very likely to be found at the last minute, because the prospect of the European Union-Western Balkans Summit ending without a communiqué is not in anyone's interest.
But since you have asked me, any prospect that departs from the framework of the Thessaloniki agenda, the decisions taken in Thessaloniki in 2003, is a matter of concern for us because, as you said, the full accession of the Western Balkans remains a firm strategy of ours.
And if you will allow me, it is not a matter of political cost for Greece. As a matter of principle, I do not wish to sound negative, I wish to sound positive. What I want to say is that the benefit for both Greece and the Western Balkans from their full accession into the European family is, in my humble opinion, self-evident. At least that is how I see it.
And I believe that we – all countries - should continue working in this direction.
Greece, along with some other countries of the European Union, has of course taken several initiatives, as I said last time. We had even raised the issue with the Portuguese Presidency of the Council of the EU, which, in the final analysis, had no particular reason to be interested in the Western Balkans, nevertheless they demonstrated particular interest and made efforts. Unfortunately, the efforts did not pay off.
And now, of course, we will continue together with Slovenia and other countries with which we share a special interest. This is a one-way street for us. That is, for me, I believe that there cannot be any question of non-accession. No. This is not a tactic. It is a strategic goal. And it will remain a strategic goal. I do not know how many more superlatives I should use to emphasize the importance we attach to this region.
I will say it again; the stability of this region is in the interest of both the Western Balkans and of course Greece.
Ms Tsamouri, please.
K. TSAMOURI: Good afternoon, Mr. Spokesman. How feasible is the creation of a European NATO following the Greek-French agreement? Because we see that many countries appear ready to move forward along the path set by Greece and France. Is this a first step towards the creation of a European army? This is the first question.
And the second is, if you allow me to return to the question of Apostolos Mangiriadis, because I see here that the fact that the Americans are talking about the renewal of the defense agreement for an indefinite period and not for a five-year period, is also being criticized by SYRIZA now.
We want you to answer if there is a discussion about indefinite concessions. Thank you.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I thank you very much. Well, let me ask first: are there any other questions right now? Good. I'm trying to see, because you have asked two questions. I will answer the second one very quickly. Anyway, I have nothing to add to what I have already said.
I stick to what the Prime Minister said yesterday at the press conference with Mr. Macron. I have nothing to add. If you allow me, I will not comment on State Department tweets on this issue. Negotiations are ongoing. I have nothing else to add on this issue.
Now, on the other issue, the European army. This is a long discussion. Allow me to give a historical overview. I do not want to take up too much time, but I believe it is important to put things into context, because the term ‘European army’ is making the rounds in European capitals, in Brussels, for years. In fact, during the last decade, there have been several casual remarks about it made by EU officials or officials from EU member states.
The only time a definition on a European army was laid out was in 1954, in the Treaty to establish the European Defence Community, signed by the – then - six member states of the ECSC, the European Coal and Steel Community (France, West Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Italy)
I am saying this from a historical standpoint so as to put the issue into context. What did this Treaty entail? I will mention it briefly. National armies were to be abolished, these countries would cease to have a national army, with all that entails, and they would join a European army.
And the treaty is interesting because it stated that this army would be intrinsically linked to NATO and that the Supreme Allied Commander for Europe, who always happens to be a US general, based in Mons outside Brussels, would be able to take over the command of the European army, if necessary.
These were the provisions of the Treaty of the European Defence Community in 1952, which, of course, was never implemented, because it was not ratified by one of the states in 1954, by France to be precise.
So why am I saying all this? Because the creation of a European army at this moment, that is, the abolition of national armies, to put it this way, in this context, is, I believe, still far away – and this is clearly my personal opinion.
Of course, what we are realistically trying to do - and the Greece-France agreement is moving in this direction - is to create the possibilities for the European states, the European Union, to have military capabilities so that they can undertake autonomously, that is, without relying on another organization, a military operation.
Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment. The possibility of autonomy, to act autonomously without asking for help from other allies, has not been possible, at least on a large scale.
And one of the problems facing Europe, facing the European countries, is the fragmentation of military capabilities. I will refer to statistics, in fact these are not my words, they are the words of the former President of the European Commission, Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, who had said some very interesting things which I will mention in brief.
The first is that Europeans spend about 50% of what the Americans spend; the defence budget of the 27 member states is about half the US defence budget. That alone speaks volumes.
But this is the input. The output, the yield of this 50% is 15% of the US. The problem is not that we do not spend enough. It is that we waste too much. And why? Because there are 27 countries.
The other thing Juncker said, which was also very interesting, is that the US military, the US armed forces have, I do not remember how many, three, four different types of helicopters. Europeans have more types of helicopters than there are member states.
Well, these are key issues that need to be addressed in order to be able to develop European defence capabilities in the future. And they are not going to be solved overnight.
That is why I am telling you; this is a prospect that I believe is necessary, the development of European capabilities is something that we must definitely take forward. And as the Prime Minister said yesterday, of course, and as Greece has repeatedly stressed, this, and I said it before, is not and should not be considered incompatible with or antagonistic to NATO. On the contrary, what we want to create is a European pillar within NATO.
At the moment, this is easier said than done. The other major question is to what extent - but we are now entering into a philosophical debate - European unification, what we call integration, will reach a point where its member states will decide that "we cease to have a national army", which is the very definition of national sovereignty and "we transfer sovereignty to a European institution, to a transnational body".
My humble opinion is that we are still very far from this perspective. It does not mean that we will not get there, but at the moment I do not think that…
CHR. KRATSI: Although it is out of the news while still remaining an issue, is there any progress regarding the safe evacuation of Afghans of Greek interest from Kabul? We know that efforts have been made which did not succeed. Are there any developments on this issue?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: There is no development that I know of, nothing tangible. What I do know is that efforts are ongoing. The main problem we have at the moment is that the prospect of air evacuation is out of the question. This is one obstacle. Without going into details, and I say this, not because I do not want to give you the details, but for reasons concerning their security, the other obstacle is that these people do not possess travel documents. Efforts are being made to find other ways to evacuate them.
I am sorry, but I do not have anything new at the moment.
TH. BALODIMAS: Balodimas from “Rizospastis” newspaper. Yes, I want to ask, in the context of the agreement with the French, how close are we to deploying a military force to the Sahel region or to another area, as happened with Saudi Arabia.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Allow me to refer you to the Ministry of Defence on this. I should also add…..
TH. BALODIMAS: I am interrupting, but they refer us to you.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Yes, but the deployment, forgive me for saying that, the deployment of military forces abroad is not… And all I can say at the moment is that this is not something that, if I remember correctly, is included in the agreement signed yesterday.
TH. BALODIMAS: Mr. Spokesperson, it is in article 18.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: Yes, you are right, I did not see it, I apologize. I had focused more on foreign policy issues and less on military cooperation because, after all, it does not fall within the competence of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But, as I said before, this chapter concerns the Ministry of Defence. I cannot comment on something that lies beyond the competences of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I'm sorry.
P. MICHOS: Panagiotis Michos from “TO VIMA” newspaper. Is there any development on the exploratory talks? Are we waiting for an invitation from Turkey, do we know a date for the 63rd round? Thank you very much.
A. PAPAIOANNOU: I thank you.
The next round, as you know, will take place in Turkey and there will be an announcement to this effect, announcements to be precise, both from our Ministry and from the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs when we have something tangible to announce.
I do not have anything else at the moment.
SP. SOURMELIDIS: Will research continue in the Greek EEZ south of Crete? Do you know if there is any timetable for this?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: The issue is not the responsibility of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I am sorry, but we are not competent to talk about this issue.
TH. ARGYRAKIS: It became recently known Saudi Arabia made a donation of ten million, as an aid to Greece for the pandemic; and that in the end, this amount was not directed to state coffers, but to the coffers of a large company that is an adviser to the state.
Did Saudi Arabia make contact with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, or through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, about where this money should be deposited? And if something like that happened, what did our Ministry answer?
A. PAPAIOANNOU: You are obviously referring to a Parliamentary question, which has been tabled and will be answered by the Minister within the context of parliamentary scrutiny. So, at the moment I have nothing to say.
Thank you very much for your patience and I wish you a good afternoon. We will meet again soon.
September 29, 2021