JOURNALIST: Minister, welcome.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Thank you very much, Mr. Aftias.
JOURNALIST: I warmly thank you! I am not sure where to begin. You realize that our interview is very interesting today, given that your American counterpart is arriving in our country. What is the significance of the US Secretary of State’s presence in Greece today?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Today is a significant day for Greek diplomacy. First of all, many happy returns. It is also a great day for Orthodoxy. There is also the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken’s visit to Greece. He is a significant figure in the American political scene as he largely determines US foreign policy, US diplomacy. I would say that today’s visit symbolizes that Greek-US relations are at their peak. I believe that the momentous occasion in 2022, when the Greek Prime Minister addressed a joint session of the Senate and the House of Representatives, marked not only a great day of pride for all Greeks — given the rarity of such an appearance by a head of government before Congress — but also the excellent state of Greek-US relations. Greece, Mr. Aftias, is a country which may be relatively small in size and population, but it has acquired a disproportionately large foreign policy capital. And this has been accomplished through a policy of principles, a policy of consistency, so that we can converse with all regional and international players and be highly respected. We do not engage in transactional politics. Instead, we conduct an international policy of principles that is respected by everyone. All major players, including the United States, which obviously constitute a superpower, acknowledge our status as a reliable regional player.
JOURNALIST: You are absolutely clear. So, the discussion today with the US Secretary of State will revolve around all the known issues, namely aircrafts, foreign policy, our relations with the USA, etc. Would you be able to delve deeper into these topics on our show today, or is that off-limits?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I will share with your viewers what we can disclose, as I believe it is important for Greek citizens to be informed. Greece does not pursue secret foreign policy. For this reason, both myself and the Prime Minister always state our principles, inform the political parties, and the Greek people. Today's discussion will revolve around two main axes. The first axis pertains to international developments. Regrettably, Mr. Aftias, two wars are raging in our broader neighborhood, which afflict not just the region but the entire world. I believe that they pose a significant risk to regional as well as international security. There is the war in the Middle East and the war between Russia and Ukraine. In both cases, there is a serious risk of a spill-over effect, particularly in the Middle East where signals are particularly alarming. Terrorist attacks in recent weeks have exacerbated the situation. Our greatest concern, Mr. Aftias, is the possibility of a domino effect in other areas, particularly northern Israel and Lebanon, with the involvement of other countries.
Greece plays a particularly active role in the Middle East. Both the Prime Minister and I have travelled and have engaged in daily conversations with all parties involved, including regional and international players. In the next two weeks, I will travel to Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia to discuss these issues, and of course, I will also meet with my counterparts from Israel and Palestine. Greece, from day one, has taken a principled stance on the Middle East, stating unequivocally that we condemn any form of aggression and hostility, any violation of International Law. On the other hand, we demand -and I believe this is a universal imperative- that there must be absolute respect for humanitarian values in conflict zones. For this reason, we can hold talks with everyone with credibility and seriousness. It is certain, Mr. Aftias, -a point I expect to be reaffirmed in today's discussion with Mr. Blinken-, that Greece will play a very decisive role, both in terms of delivering humanitarian aid and seeking a lasting solution to the Middle East issue.
Furthermore, discussions will focus on bilateral issues. We will discuss some significant open issues. There is substantial energy and defense cooperation. I would like to remind you that in 2022 we had a major amendment to the Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement, which precisely marked the enhancement of relations between the United States and Greece. And of course, there are all the collaborations that stem from this agreement. In addition, as you are aware, Greece has pursued a policy of strengthening its Armed Forces over the last five years. We believe, Mr. Aftias - and this pertains to your area of expertise - that the country's economic development, as well as the bolstering of its Armed Forces, increases our diplomatic capital. Diplomatic capital and foreign policy do not exist in a vacuum. They function within the framework of the development of a country and so long as our country increases its influence within Europe and globally, its diplomatic capital becomes significant and it can assert its positions. For this reason, it is always crucial to prioritize the upgrading of its Armed Forces.
As you are aware, Greece has applied to join the very valuable F-35 combat aircrafts program. They can considerably upgrade the country's defense capability. We will discuss this issue and I believe that we will have positive developments. We await the response of the American side. Of course, we realize that we cannot determine the way in which US diplomacy, the USA as nation, essentially provides its defense assistance and military equipment to other countries. Nonetheless, within the framework of a defense alliance, especially the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, we always vigorously demand respect for the principle of territorial integrity and for International Law. No military equipment provided can be used against an ally country.
JOURNALIST: With respect to the issue of sovereignty, Greece has made it very clear, in every direction, both domestically and internationally, that issues of its sovereignty are out of question. As a journalist, I am not sure whether I conveyed this accurately, but I would like the Minister of Foreign Affairs to tell us about this. The Prime Minister has referred to it. I would like to hear it from you, as well, since today is a very important day.
G. GERAPETRITIS: I want to be clear and explicit, and commit myself before your viewers and the Greek people. Issues that pertain to the country's sovereignty will never, I repeat, never be discussed or reconsidered. For us, sovereignty is non-negotiable, inalienable, and emanates from the Greek people itself. And no politician, especially not myself, who always maintains an institutional stance on matters, will negotiate issues concerning Greek sovereignty. And since I realize that you also refer to the Treaty of Lausanne, I want to tell you unequivocally, with absolute clarity, that there is no question of modifying or revising the Treaty of Lausanne. After all, International Law itself forbids any modification of treaties that define borders. But specifically, for us, the Treaty of Lausanne is a sacred, solid legal foundation. Greece’s relation to International Law is largely defined by the Treaty of Lausanne. It is a firmly structured relation. I assure you that issues of Greek sovereignty have not been, nor will they be raised, either by Türkiye, or by the international community.
JOURNALIST: This is your response to the Main Opposition and, on occasion, to the PASOK party. You emphasize today, as has been done by our Prime Minister, that there are no issues of sovereignty on the table. Let this end here, Minister.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Allow me to make the following remark, Mr. Aftias. When it comes to our national foreign policy, there is no room for outbidding in populism and no room whatsoever for political and partisan exploitation. For this reason, I always try to inform the country’s political parties and institutions in great detail, so that we all have a common understanding. Thus, let me tell you this: from the very beginning, our position was that Greece is a country that seeks dialogue, diplomacy, democracy. That is why we discuss. You know, Mr. Aftias, it is a great privilege for the country to be able to negotiate and to do so from a position of strength. It is something we have achieved in recent years and will continue to do so. On the other hand, it is inconceivable to me that an issue of such high sensitivity should become part of the political debate. We must not address such serious matters in the context of political rivalry. And I want to tell you this: We have made a significant effort in recent months with Türkiye to be able to find ourselves in a situation where we can discuss. For us, it is critical to discuss and to do so, on the basis of sovereign equality, on terms that allow us to convey our position. Mr. Aftias, we all realize how important it is to be able to live in peace, as I believe every Greek citizen does. It is extremely important.
JOURNALIST: We have achieved that right now.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Not just for today but for the future generations, as well.
JOURNALIST: Have the slogans "Mitsotakis yok" and "we will come suddenly one night," etc., ended?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I want to tell you that there is currently an exceptionally good level of mutual understanding. We have built a relationship of honesty. Of course, honesty has to be proven in practice and on a consistent basis. However, I would like to highlight how important it is that we have at last reached a level of discussion and understanding that allows us to manage tensions without causing crises. You know, in the past, and not necessarily in the distant past, every time we had tension, whether in the Aegean or in the Eastern Mediterranean, whether in rhetoric or in actions, it resulted in a major crisis. What we want is that tensions and disagreements, which undoubtedly exist - and we have fundamental positions from which we will not deviate - should not cause crises. When I sit in my office, I always have one thing on my mind. And that is how future generations of Greeks can live in prosperity. That is my great concern and my great mission. Therefore, when I leave the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I want to leave a legacy. That the next generations will feel, if nothing else, self-confident, grateful for what the state has provided them, and able to live in progress and prosperity. I myself, along with the Prime Minister and the Government, envision a Greece that will be strong and self-confident. A Greece that will be able to encourage its youth to stay in the country.
JOURNALIST: Let us prepare the clip from the Prime Minister's speech to Congress, especially the part where he addresses sovereignty. What time is Mr. Blinken scheduled to arrive?
G. GERAPETRITIS: It is not yet confirmed. He is expected to arrive early in the afternoon.
JOURNALIST: I realize that you may not be able to disclose the exact time. I fully understand that. My apologies.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Security matters are involved.
JOURNALIST: Of course, there are security matters. Today is indeed a special day. Let us focus on the F-35 issue, right? Can we talk about that?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Certainly.
JOURNALIST: We are not acquiring the F-35s in order to “suddenly come at night” or in the morning or evening, nor to provoke with statements like “Erdogan yok” and so forth. Because the Prime Minister never said we want to go to Izmir or Istanbul. Quite the opposite, he said that he wants to maintain the highest level of national defence. Why? Because the other side threatens us. Isn't that simple? Do our islands feel comfortable with all this, Minister?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I am an islander, as you know, Mr. Aftias.
JOURNALIST: I know, I know that very well.
G. GERAPETRITIS: I am an islander, having been born and lived on a frontier island. Therefore, I want to tell you and to convey, through you, to the Greek citizens living close to the borders that I want them to feel completely secure. I want to tell you that neither their sovereignty nor their prosperity will ever be put up for discussion. We work day and night so that Greek citizens, especially those living at the border, can feel great security. In the context of this security, I want to tell you that we are strengthening the Armed Forces. We have an armaments program that is extremely ambitious and significant. Unfortunately, during the great economic crisis the development and upgrading of our defense systems fell behind. In reality, we are trying to fill the gap left by the major economic crisis. We have already reached a very high level. I believe that all three of our military branches have been significantly upgraded. We are working on our defense equipment. We do not seek war, nor any hostility. I would say that as a nation, we are not by nature, intolerant. We are tolerant people, we want to live in peace, but we also want to ensure our absolute defense security.
JOURNALIST: I believe you provided sufficient answers today. Let us now watch the segment that positioned our nation at the forefront of international affairs. You know, in the realms of foreign policy and economics, the government, in which you serve, literally has the upper hand. I have often heard Mr. Mitsotakis advocate for "economy, a stable economy with a social profile". We will delve into this topic shortly.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Of course.
JOURNALIST: So, let us watch together this defining segment that prompted us all to acknowledge that something of great significance, something unprecedented is unfolding.
EXCERPT FROM THE PRIME MINISTER’S ADDRESS IN CONGRESS
JOURNALIST: That, I think, was the crowning moment of our country's foreign policy, as well as the consolidation, the conviction that we are talking about our country’s sovereignty. We arm ourselves to face whatever comes from outside.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Understandably, Mr. Aftias, it fills us with pride to witness a Greek Prime Minister -irrespective of political affiliation- addressing the U.S. Congress; it is important that the Greek Prime Minister, in a rare honor for any head of government, states explicitly before the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate that Greek sovereignty stands as the paramount safeguard for regional security. And I want to tell you that it is quite significant that we saw the members of Congress giving a standing ovation. You know, the uplift that the country’s strong international presence elicits is something that ultimately resonates with each one of us individually. When I travel abroad, I always seek to meet with the Greeks living abroad. And I want to confess that I feel very proud when I hear that the Diaspora Greeks, who are the strongest, the most dynamic part of Greek society, feel proud and want to return to Greece. It is our dream to bring the Diaspora Greeks closer to their Motherland. Our Diaspora is our great weapon, our great diplomatic weapon, and we will build bridges that will remain solid.
JOURNALIST: Let me tell you this. Since you have been speaking, we've received 300, 400 messages from America, Australia, Canada. And of course, there’s the Prime Minister's Christmas message to Diaspora Greeks: “Dear Fellow Greeks, as we approach the advent of the New Year, I extend this heartfelt message to all of you”. He speaks of the invaluable contribution of Greeks abroad to the path towards progress. "For these profound reasons, nurturing relations with the Greek Diaspora has been, is, and will always remain a foremost priority for the Greek State”, says the Prime Minister. “We’ve recently taken significant steps to eliminate all obstacles that hindered Greek voters living outside Greece from participating in elections. Notably, the introduction of postal voting during the June European elections ensures that every voice resonates from afar, without expense or inconvenience. And you are participants in our national strategy". This is being broadcast now, it’s afternoon in Australia, evening in New York - most have left New York and gone to Florida today, George Angelakis tells me. It’s very important for us to reach out to them every day, Minister, for you to talk to them about postal voting and to tell them: "Yes, you are an active, an integral, highly active social part of our country's potential".
G. GERAPETRITIS: Since you are looking for revelations, I’ll tell you that at next week's Cabinet meeting, we will unveil the new National Strategy for the Diaspora. It is a comprehensive plan through which we, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the competent Deputy Minister, Mr. Kotsiras, aim at developing a series of actions that will better approach the Greek Diaspora and bring it closer to the Motherland: initiatives pertaining to Greek education, Greek-speaking education, the development of Greek language, the development of cultural diplomacy and the establishment of strong and solid bonds with the Motherland. For us, Hellenism is one and is everywhere; our great strength is that, at this moment, Greeks are everywhere and they are thriving. For this reason, we will unveil a comprehensive plan, developed to the last detail, so that the Diaspora Greeks feel that they are part of the Greek production potential. For us, decision-making is not limited to Greeks living in Greece, or Greeks living today. It concerns Greeks all over the world as well as the future generations of Greeks.
JOURNALIST: Now, Minister, will discussions with Mr. Blinken be concluded tonight? Is he expected to spend the night in Chania? Of course, you are aware of such details, and I wouldn’t presume to pry further…
G. GERAPETRITIS: Let me inform you that Mr. Blinken is taking a significant tour in the Middle East, visiting the countries that have a critical role to play in the war situation in the Middle East. He will attempt, as will we next week, to create conditions for pacification in order to achieve the release of hostages and, above all, a viable solution. We realize there is a humanitarian crisis, which over time has unfortunately grown absolutely intolerable for each of us.
JOURNALIST: That’s exactly as you put it. Mr. Mitsotakis’ statement calling for a political solution to this issue certainly carries weight. Now, recalling how Kyriakos Mitsotakis' father hosted President G.H.W. Bush with traditional dolmadakia in Chania, one wonders if Secretary Blinken would taste a Cretan recipe tonight. I’m sure something special has been prepared for him, right?
G. GERAPETRITIS: You are well aware that Greek hospitality leaves no one dissatisfied. It is certain that he will leave with the best impressions in all respects.
JOURNALIST: I will conclude with one final question because two of my esteemed colleagues, who hold you in high regard, would like to ask something as well. So, here's my last question. The Mitsotakis line is as follows: on national issues, there is no issue regarding our sovereignty; economy with a social aspect; security, health, education, and what follows, at the forefront after the changes. Correct?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Let me be clear. Greece is moving forward in great strides. We do not always perceive that. If one looks back from 2015 to 2019 and attempts such a retrospective projection, they would realize the achievements of the Greek people. And I am not referring to the Greek government. Today, we indeed face multifaceted crises. Asymmetrical crises have occurred. There was a global health crisis, an energy crisis, conflicts in our neighborhood, and severe climate-related consequences from the climate crisis. Despite everything, Greece has emerged not just unscathed but, I believe, significantly strengthened. Greece is presently progressing steadily. I'm not saying we are not facing problems. There are huge challenges, with inflation and the necessary support for the socially vulnerable being the most critical ones. However, I believe that Greece has gained political stature to approach the next steps with optimism and prudence. I closely followed your earlier discussion about the economy. For me, and this has been set in the most emphatic way by the Prime Minister, the most important goal is to achieve real economic convergence between Greek and European citizens. The year 2027 will be a milestone for us. We've set an ambitious target of 950 euros for the minimum wage and 1,500 euros for the average wage. In this way, we will fully converge with the European average. We will become truly Europeans. We've become Europeans in terms of our diplomacy. The economic indicators and the fiscal data are doing exceptionally well; we have regained our investment grade status. Now is the time for Greek citizens to reap the dividend they deserve.
JOURNALIST: Since you referred to proposals that Mr. Mitsotakis did not make, such as Mr. Kasselakis becoming a minister, were you ever offered the position of European Commissioner?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Look, I always operate on the basis that I have been honored with a specific portfolio. A portfolio extremely important and critical for Greece. It is a responsibility that increases my obligation every day. I am centered and focused on this. I have not considered, nor have we discussed future plans with the Prime Minister. But I want you to know that I have never been a fan of a position or office for its own sake. Serving my country is both an honor and a duty for me. Because, as I usually say, we owe our existence primarily to our country. So, I currently serve my country from the position of the Minister of Foreign Affairs with honor and gratitude. I will do all in my power to improve our country's standing on the international stage. Wherever our country needs me in the future, I will be there. I recognize that each of us, in our own modest ways, owes to our country.
JOURNALIST: Ms. Zarakeli, over to you.
JOURNALIST: Let me return to the Greek-Turkish relations. I hold as very important what you also noted, George Aftias. You were absolutely clear, Minister, about the issue of Greek sovereignty and, of course, about the Treaty of Lausanne and the entire discussion that has opened up about the demilitarization of the islands. I assume that the issue of the F-35s is a huge one that will undoubtedly upgrade our country's geostrategic power. I am not sure though: have we agreed with Türkiye that we disagree, or do we sail in calm waters at the moment? And I ask this, because there is a major discussion over the continental shelf, the EEZ, and whether The Hague is at the end of the road, Minister.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Your question is particularly critical and I expected no less from you and I thank you. The reality is, and I want to be very clear on this. From Türkiye’s side, a sovereignty issue has never been raised. I frequently hear the discussion about demilitarization or about the grey zones. We haven’t discussed it but also such a topic has never been brought to my attention, and I can assure you categorically and unequivocally that I would not have allowed it to be brought up.
JOURNALIST: Minister, let me put it as someone might ask you. The Turks want to share the Aegean and we respond “what are you talking about? What exactly are you saying?” Is it correct? Or are we mistaken?
G. GERAPETRITIS: The answer is that regardless of what anyone wants, which I cannot interpret, I simply prepare for all scenarios. Greece will never concede, not an inch from the rights it possesses. I am very clear; we will never discuss sovereignty.
JOURNALIST: Are we close or far from The Hague?
G. GERAPETRITIS: On the other hand, Ms Zarakeli is right to raise the issue of maritime zones and particularly, the issue of the Exclusive Economic Zone and the continental shelf. Why? Because right now we have reached a level of maturity, Ms Zarakeli, which is significant. What does this mean? It means that we can live peacefully together. You know, the fact that we no longer have violations in the Greek airspace is a huge benefit.
JOURNALIST: Neither in the air nor at sea?
G. GERAPETRITIS: There are no violations. The refugee flows have significantly decreased. The truth is that on the part of the Turkish side, there is a much greater eagerness to disrupt human trafficking networks. We have achieved a level of cooperation that allows us to meet and discuss in a peaceful atmosphere. On the other hand, the reality is, as Ms Zarakeli aptly put it, that our major issue, the underlying issue that generates crises if you will, is the issue of the delimitation of the continental shelf and the Exclusive Economic Zone. According to International Law, as you well know, this is a matter of negotiation, which could eventually end up in international jurisdiction at the International Court of Justice in The Hague or at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in Hamburg. At this stage, we have not discussed this issue. It is an issue that will be raised in the future. What we have said is that we proceed step by step. We will never make leaps, because our predisposition is to progress, demonstrating our sincerity in practice. I want us to sit at the table when the time comes and conditions are ripe.
JOURNALIST: Minister, Will we get the F-35s tonight? Regardless of what happens with Türkiye's F-16s?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I will be absolutely clear. I believe that the F-35 issue will be resolved. It is a matter of time. Greece will join the F-35 program. Greece is not determined by external factors. What Türkiye does in relation to the United States is entirely indifferent to us. We have independently and autonomously established a relationship with the United States, which is an absolutely stable, equal relationship of diplomatic sincerity. And I believe that the diplomatic benefits will not be limited only to the F-35s, but will be multiple. In my view, they will be both economic and defensive, but mostly geostrategic.
JOURNALIST: So, if I understand correctly, what you're saying today is that Greece will acquire the “Porsche of the skies”, while Türkiye can get whatever they want, as it is inferior anyway. Is that right, or am I wrong?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I'm telling you something else. I am interested in my country. It is imperative that our country acquires the finest, the most innovative, and the most advanced and our country will secure these.
JOURNALIST: Thank you very much. I wish you a fruitful meeting with Mr. Blinken.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Thank you very much, Mr. Aftias.
JOURNALIST: The very best to you.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Wishing everyone good health. Concluding, I would like to reaffirm that Greek foreign policy will remain a foreign policy of principles. We will not have different measures and standards. We oppose aggression and staunchly support International Law. Thus, Greece will always stand in the forefront.
JOURNALIST: Thank you very much.
G. GERAPETRITIS: All the best. Thank you very much.
January 6, 2024