JOURNALIST: What repercussions might the coup in Turkey have for our country, Mr. Minister? What worries you the most?
N. KOTZIAS: For some time now, I have been underscoring that Turkey is distinguished for a restiveness, a term used to describe Germany in the 19th century. A restiveness followed by the more intensive presence of the Army. I was disparaged for these views, but developments have a way of bearing out sober assessments. What interests me is that any restiveness or worsening of domestic contradictions in Turkey not pass into inter-state relations; that the crisis not be exported through accidents. This is a basic criterion for handling the situation.
JOURNALIST: Does any strengthening of Erdogan lead, in your opinion, to an upgrading of Turkish provocations in the Aegean?
N. KOTZIAS: The Erdogan era is characterized by the fact that there has been no heated incident against our country. There have been violations of international law, of course. At least in the short term, they will probably decrease. If, of course, domestic authoritarianism increases in our neighbour, then, in the long term, these violations may increase. In any case, we have to be measured and cautious. Sober and calm. We need to take care to develop the friendship between the two peoples.
JOURNALIST: Is there any lesson for the Cyprus issue from the coup attempt?
N. KOTZIAS: The developments vindicate our position that the Turkish occupation force in Cyprus cannot be an agent for democratic peace or a guarantor of the implementation of a just solution. In fact, it is and will present a danger to any solution. A hotbed generating coups. A real solution includes the complete and definitive withdrawal of the Turkish army from Cyprus, the elimination of the anachronistic system of guarantees. I hope everyone now understands this.
JOURNALIST: Athens supports Erdogan. But isn’t it worried by the authoritarianism shown by Erdogan following the coup’s failure, the way he is dealing with his opponents?
N. KOTZIAS: Athens is against any form of coup. No one has the right to forget that those who attempted the coup acted against the institutions of Turkish democracy, however critical an opinion one has of those institutions. I believe that Turkey needs more democracy, not less. The victors of the internal controversy must show magnanimity to the defeated, ensuring that they are judged base of the rule of law, despite the gravity of their actions. The victors must show that they defend the constitutional institutions of their country and not the power of any given individual. That is why, from the very outset, I spoke of restraint and moderation.
JOURNALIST: How should the European Union behave towards Turkey, Mr. Minister? Does the situation following the coup facilitate the visa liberalization Ankara is seeking?
N. KOTZIAS: At the Council of Foreign Ministers last week, we welcomed the defeat of the coup. We agreed that Turkey should show a European political and legal culture; that the victors should show self-restraint and not bring back the death penalty.
JOURNALIST: Many believe that Turkey, even in the short term, will face problems of cohesion and of maintaining its borders. Do you agree?
N. KOTZIAS: The EU wants a democratic Turkey in which the interests and needs of all religious, ethnic and social groups are respected. We don’t want a Turkey of revenge, of rifts, of destabilization. In this context, I think Erdogan’s statement regarding Hagia Sophia was counterproductive.
JOURNALIST: And something else. What kind of coup was it that took place in Turkey and forced many to call it “staged”?
N. KOTZIAS: It was a coup from another era, when it sufficed to take over the state radio stations. Back when there were no social media or private media outlets. It is a coup that struck at parts of the army itself and citizens; that started in the evening of a holiday, with the imams on the balconies, and not in the early-morning hours. There are quite a few who believe that there were forces who were preparing the coup and were discovered, and that, subsequently, perhaps they were trapped into acting early.
JOURNALIST: Will Greece hand over the Turkish military personnel who requested asylum in Alexandroupoli, Mr. Minister?
N. KOTZIAS: That will be decided by the judges and the competent authorities. The latter will certainly take into account the extent to which the eight were part of the coup. That their lawyers are saying they weren’t aware of the coup is their absolute and inalienable right. Let me take this opportunity to note something else. I cannot accept the insult of drawing a parallel between the struggle of those who fight for their rights nationally, socially and democratically, and those who mount a coup; who wanted to overturn the rights of society, who bombed the Parliament, killed and wounded protesters. They deserve anything but our solidarity.
JOURNALIST: Turkey is threatening that there will be a deterioration in Greek-Turkish relations if you don’t hand them over …
N. KOTZIAS: You are referring, I imagine, to the comments published in the Turkish ambassador’s interview on Tuesday. But, as you saw, there was a clarifying statement as to what was said on his part. In the “genuine” text, no such threats are expressed.
JOURNALIST: Does the ruling of the Court of Arbitration in The Hague, on the Philippines’ case against China, constitute a precedent for Greek-Turkish relations? Even if Turkey hasn’t signed the Law of the Sea?
N. KOTZIAS: We fought a successful days-long negotiation so that the stance and decisions of the EU on this issue would do three things: a) Protect our fundamental national interest with regard to the implementation of the International Convention on the Law of the Sea. This is the first time the EU so categorically supports its implementation. B) We raised a new issue, which we will raise more and more systematically: If the EU demands of third parties that they implement the Law of the Sea, then it should be even more demanding in this regard to candidate and associated states, with whatever that entails. c) Finally, any stances of the EU should not undermine our relations with our friend China. We managed to achieve multiple changes to the EU text, serving these three goals.
JOURNALIST: Many people are raising the issue of the Turkish consulate in Komotini having exceeded its role. Even the President of the Republic made a warning on the subject. Do you share that view?
N. KOTZIAS: The Turkish consulate often acts beyond its competencies. We have to take care to remind them of this. First of all, I note that the Muslim minority has always lived well in Greece, within a civilized framework and with its rights guaranteed. I also note that Roma and Pomaks, too, belong to this community. Two groups of Muslims of Thrace who are unrelated to those groups who are self-determined as being of Turkish origin. Moreover, one need do no more than compare the development of the Muslim community in Thrace with what the Hellenism of Asia Minor and Istanbul have suffered.
JOURNALIST: After the latest slaughter in Nice, many are arguing that democracies have reached their limits and that the West should step up its military action against ISIS. Do you agree?
N. KOTZIAS: The fight against fanaticism, every form of fanaticism, and terrorism must be unrelenting. Democracy does not have limits. With regard to the recent terrorist attacks in EU states, what is characteristic is that the vast majority of these attacks come from Muslim citizens of these states. There is a problem of their identity and integration into the societies of the EU member states.
JOURNALIST: Do you agree with the escalation of tension between Russia and NATO?
N. KOTZIAS: In the EU, more or less in NATO, there are two trends on handling Russia: one tough, one more realistic. This is why there are two positions set down in their decisions: Deterrence and dialogue. I often underscore that the main question is whether the West wants to consolidate a security architecture in Europe against Russia or with Russia, as happened during the Cold War and was institutionalized in the Helsinki Accords. I am in favor of the second option, as long as the other side helps through its choices.
JOURNALIST: Will Greece agree to participate in military forces?
N. KOTZIAS: Greece is not participating in NATO’s new military missions in northeastern Europe.
JOURNALIST: Should the issue of the sanctions against Russia be reconsidered?
N. KOTZIAS: There are two types of sanctions. Those that are imposed to bring the opponent to its knees – a lost cause – and those that are aimed at bringing the opponent to the negotiating table. As a rule, sanctions do not have significant results. I believe that, in the fall, in the EU, we should discuss why and whether the EU wants to renew the sanctions against Russia. We need to have such a sincere discussion. Knee-jerk decisions never help.
JOURNALIST: Following the Brexit, what changes do you think Europe needs to make, Mr. Minister?
N. KOTZIAS: The EU needs to make a fundamental decision: Does it want to deepen the integration processes? And, if so, does it understand that these have to be in the direction of more democracy, of social justice and of growth? That the time has come to say farewell to the neo-liberal dogmas and memorandum policies? Because if it continues on the same course, it will probable founder in suicidal tendencies …
July 24, 2016