N. KOTZIAS: So good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Our international conference has one specific feature. It’s part and parcel of our effort, effort by the Ministry, to open up our external policy internationally.
We have a certain policy that we follow when it comes to the so-called directly national issues, i.e. our relations with our neighbours. There is also our foreign policy, which is partly home affairs as well. This is a whole scientific issue. What is the notion of European affairs and where are we there.
We are also working on a policy for the Middle East and the Mediterranean, and yesterday and today we had a conference, an international conference, and we had guests from all over the world. We had statespersons, institutes and religious leaders coming from all over the world, starting from the U.S. and Canada and all the way to India. And actually the basin between Italy and India was widely represented. All countries between Italy and India had delegations, religious and political delegations. The most important religious leaders attended this conference and also the most renowned political and other institutions or agencies that work in the fields of politics, culture and religion.
As I said at the conclusions of the conference, we had some 70 participants who took the floor and they represented 45 states and international organisations. I believe that this conference of ours is going to contribute towards achieving the goals we set, the goal of protecting the communities in the Middle East and generally speaking the eastern basin of the Mediterranean. And this conference will also help us combat those forces and powers that are undermining the pluralism of religions and cultures, religions and cultures that have been there for at least 2,500 years in this region.
In the discussion we had, several proposals were formulated. We are going to codify those. I have actually touched on some of them at the end of the conference. We are going to publish the minutes in a volume. We also have a statement, a statement approved by the Presidium, and we also agreed on the establishment of an Observatory, an Observatory that will concern developments in this region. And we will also have international participation ensured for the observatory, and the observatory will be based in Athens.
Now we are committed as concerns our international presence. We are committed to making two initiatives happen. One of the initiatives is something that I have discussed with various of our partners within the EU, and this initiative concerns the fact that within the context of the EU we need to stop talking exclusively about penalties or sanctions and embargoes and new MOUs, which cannot shape the future, especially an attractive and appealing future for the EU. So we agreed with our partners, our partners in the EU, that it’s important for us to have another discussion. We have to talk about the sort of EU we are looking forward to in the twenty-first century. It has to be social and democratic. We have to discuss the values and principles on which we are going to count with regard to its institutional processes and systems and so on.
This is something that we have been discussing in recent days, having finished our preparations for the International Conference you attended.
There is yet another initiative. It’s a thought that I have been entertaining for 20 years; I have to avow that. And I first thought about that years ago and I have started to work on this practically for the past four months, and the response was positive. You see, I envisaged the establishment of an international secretariat for the so-called GC9, i.e. the great cultures, the nations that have significant cultural background. And this is an initiative aimed at highlighting and showcasing the importance of culture and civilisation as soft power. Many of you have studied international relations, and you know that one of the soft powers we have in our hands is civilisation and culture, because culture after all is an economic power and it’s a way to attract investors and also improve the tourism industry.
I have agreed with the majority of the stakeholders. I thought I should save the announcement of this initiative for today, for now. You see, this GC9 initiative brings together various countries, starting from China and all the way to Mexico. These are big nations, big countries, that have contributed to the global civilisation and cultural developments. As of tomorrow we are going to promote this initiative and the respective agreement on the GC9.
I believe that both initiatives are really helpful with regard to improving the global image of Greece. Those two initiatives also help us showcase and highlight the advantages we have to offer. Moreover, both initiatives make it quite clear that foreign policy is something broader; broader than what we normally understand by the very notion of foreign policy.
That’s all I wanted to say – my ‘secrets’ – by way of introduction.
JOURNALIST: This conference is a good harbinger for dialogue and for Greece, but I have spoken to people who say that a country that does not allow mosques or other such edifices to be erected for Muslims is erecting this conference.
I have heard a lot of promises in the past as to the erection of a mosque, but perhaps I could have your comment on this.
N. KOTZIAS: Well, first of all thank you for coming to Athens to this conference, and we do have, as you know, excellent relations with Egypt and with many Muslim countries, the United Arab Emirates for example. And many people ask me about the mosque, and I have said that at the end of the last government we had decided and ratified the erection of a mosque in Athens with some of the bureaucratic and technical issues being swept aside. The Foreign Ministry is always monitoring developments on this front, so that this is implemented.
On a personal note, believers come into areas which are not appropriate for their religion, where even extremist elements may enter uncontrolled. We are an open society, so freedom of one’s belief and professing one’s belief and also doing that openly is the most democratic and creative method thereto.
JOURNALIST: The Conference, Mr. Minister, is in practice focused on the refugee crisis and I would like to hear what you think about Mrs Merkel’s visit to Turkey and the whole effort that is being made and the involvement of Turkey; because there are commitments that are being made, especially touching upon certain negotiation chapters.
N. KOTZIAS: I believe that Mrs. Merkel had a discussion with Mr Erdoğan, but she is not a system nor is she a European institutional instrument. Maybe she is undertaking commitments in regards to the position of Germany within the context of the EU, but the EU has its own institutions, such as the Commission. It undertakes initiatives. And there are other institutions, like the Council of Ministers and the European Council and there you have the heads of states and governments meeting together.
So, I for my part am making note of the relations of Germany and Turkey, its thoughts on this subject, but this does not mean that this is the position of EU as a whole. I am not disagreeing, I am not suggesting so much, but I am just noting, from an institutional standpoint, certain things in terms of competencies.
Second, you know that we have made a number of agreements with Turkey and think you were there with me in 1999, in Ankara, when we signed return and readmission agreement for the refugees or the illegal migrants that were coming to Greece through Turkey back then. You know that there is a relevant agreement with the EU that has not been implemented, so we need to take more measures and there is more beyond what we read about in the papers. We have to take more measures, in order for Turkey to respect its commitments.
Third, it is a good thing that a number of statespersons from the EU are undertaking initiatives so that eventually Turkey will be committed with regard its own behavior when it comes to reducing the intensity of the refugee crisis that in fact is tense in Europe.
Fourth and last point. All that has to happen in a way in which -I am not referring to Mrs Merkel, no way am I referring to her- we have to do that without actually causing problems or raising concerns to journalists coming from a third country.
JOURNALIST: Now, as concerns overcoming conflicts and rivalries in the Middle East and with different religious communities, is this going to be a spiritual or a political approach taken in overcoming those conflicts?
N. KOTZIAS: Well, I think that when you have spiritual differences, then you have to do that in a spiritual way. But of course my view is that the problems in the Middle East need to be discussed and there needs to be a broader dialogue, which will start a dialogue on an individual level as well. And this is something which I proposed to be put to the test; because Greece is an area where you can have meetings and where one might facilitate the finding of resolutions to conflicts. I propose using Greek islands without having the glare of the publicity, perhaps to thereby upgrade the role of Greece, help in international events, but not in the way in which to undermine the position of the country simply for a public relations stunt. Thank you.
JOURNALIST: Minister, one of the meetings you are going to have tomorrow will involve a meeting with Ms. Nuland from the United States administration. So does the agenda for tomorrow include the barriers of the natural gas pipelines? And what about Turkish Stream? Has this project been abandoned due to the fact that there are certain impediments in the negotiations between Russia and Turkey?
N. KOTZIAS: Let me first acquaint you to the fact that we have another meeting. The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Bulgaria will also be meeting with me. Daniel actually asked me to allow him to be the first Minister who will pay a visit.
Relations between Greece and Bulgaria are exemplary. I will never stop highlighting in public the fact that if we think that the fact that Germany and France had problems in the past 200 years, well Germany was established 145 years ago, they have a certain, in fact it is an old model, Germany and France, but now when it comes to Greece and Bulgaria we have a long background history, we have had relations for the past 600 years, so I still believe that this is a role model. And we are not actually prisoners in our history. We are strategic partners.
Tomorrow, I am meeting my peer, so tomorrow I will have a meeting with Mrs Nuland as well. She is a frequent interlocutor of ours, you know that most of you, but since you do not know about it she is in charge of Southeastern European and Mediterranean affairs. Quite often she also deals with the Ukrainian crisis. Now, time and again we discuss with Ms. Nuland on issues that are pertinent to her scope of activities and I think she always lends an ear to what we have to say and we carefully listen to what she has to say.
We talked about the pipelines back in our meeting in New York. I had a meeting with Mr. Hofstein and he met with Mr Skourletis in New York. There’s a whole discussion in progress. There are many aspects to this discussion. The discussion involves the TAP and the other pipeline, the vertical pipeline with Romania, liquefied natural gas and the respective market. The agenda also includes alternative ways and channels on how we could get, for instance, oil from Iran, Turkmenistan, etc., and process it in our own refineries for growth purposes, and there is also a discussion regarding natural gas coming from Russia.
Since day one, I told the Americans that once the Russian pipelines reach the Greek border, the Greek government is not going to disallow them from going through Greece. Back then, I said and I still insist on that, I said that in order for us to get to that point, first we have to have an agreement between Russia and Turkey.
It is a well-known fact that when it comes to those Russian pipelines and south stream that was going to Bulgaria there were a lot of objections and oppositions by various western states. But I ought to avow that during that time, when the Press was writing a lot about the various pipelines through Greece, at that point in time there was silence in terms of another forthcoming agreement, a second north stream in the north, direct connection between Russia and Germany.
And I always take the opportunity to ask, is it the Russian gas that was the main issue? Because you see there is an alternative line, there is a new pipeline and it is going up north. Or was the problem the fact that this gas was going to be taken advantage by other countries as well?
JOURNALIST (“Al Jazeera”): I would like to ask you, apart from such initiatives, what can Greek foreign policy offer the Middle East? Because this is a complex issue, such as the one in Syria.
N. KOTZIAS: I think that this is something which 200 or so guests fully comprehended, coming in from many countries and international organizations, that Greece has really got a nose for such things, and we are linked into this region. We have two advantages: We are not cynical; that’s an advantage. And we are very, very interested in human beings.
So, Greece over these two days has undertaken a mediation role between different parties involved in the Syrian conflict. So let me say on this that on a personal note I feel it is a great honor that countries, ministers and religious leaders in this region have entrusted Greece with mediation vis-à-vis other countries, eight in number, involved in the Syrian conflict and bombing. So, as I said, we have been entrusted with carrying messages between the different competing parties, but I don’t want to continue anymore with any more information, because I will be removed from my post.
D. GALONAKI (“INON” News Agency): Another question on Syria. Since people are assassinated because of the Civil war there, what about the discussions you had today? Did your discussions yesterday and today lead to a positive conclusion that will help put an end to those civil wars, in order for all religious leaders to sit around the same table and have a discussion?
N. KOTZIAS: Let me phrase it this way. The leaders of churches that were not talking to each other in recent years had public discussions here, but we also organized bilateral meetings for them.
N. KOSMIDIS (World Council of Churches): I know your personal interest, Minister, in religion in the modern world. To what extent do you think it is possible for religious communities in Middle East to remain unaffected by imperialists’ interests in the area, so that through their spiritual work they can make it possible to have some sort of reconciliation?
N. KOTZIAS: I did say in my presentation that our greatest challenge here is that you have the European Union and the West, which believes in multicultural and multi-religious societies and has not taken sufficient steps to protect culture and religious plurality that we have had in this region for 2,500 years.
So as concerns such meetings we had here, I don’t think that immediate solutions are possible, but what we are doing is to create an atmosphere so as to enable the players in Syria to have better attitudes and to explore solutions.
JOURNALIST: Good morning, congratulations on the Conference. Two question if I may. Can you give us more details on the statement that you adopted? And could you possible elaborate on the role of the Observatory? Who else is going to take part in the Observatory, what about its setup and structure?
N. KOTZIAS: First, the Resolution is going to be made public. It is going to be made public today, I imagine. As to your second question, the Observatory is an observatory in favor of memory, recording what is going on and it is also going to proceed with making steps and making interventions so that statespersons and churches will be intervening if need be.
At the closing of the Conference we agreed that we are going to establish a unit and Mr Sotiris Roussos, whose role was decisive in terms of deciding on the agenda of the Conference and putting it together, to my mind -maybe I am not doing justice to everyone- but to my mind Mr Roussos is the most experienced expert in his field and he will be assisted by a team of people, young people. And so we have agreed to draft a letter, a letter that will elaborate on the proposals of the Observatory and the gathering, so that it will include also a lot of detail on the
way in which the Observatory will be working.
Various countries have agreed to participate and some churches as well. There are some countries and some churches that want to enter a consultation, in order to decide on our proposal. So you see we will be following up on what we decided today. The continuation of this international Conference will be the Observatory and it will become more specific in due time.
We have proposals and I don’t think it is right on our part to just go out to everyone and tell them “This is it and that’s it”. We are in favor of democratic debates, so I believe it will be useful if we establish another international organization, even if it is small, here in Athens. And the European Commission has committed itself to its support.
JOURNALIST (“Editor’s Newspaper”): Now, Minister, we are watching speechless as we see what is happening in Palmyra and other places in the Middle East. As concerns the GC-10, is there a link into this issue? And perhaps you can expand on this.
N. KOTZIAS: As concerns cultural destruction, we did talk about this in the Conference and an initiative for coexistence and coaction of the states with enhanced civilization, going back to Babylon and Mesopotamia, obviously we will be dealing with this issue.
We started with this idea and the initiative which I hope can be implemented. Eight out of the ten countries in question have already come forward on this, so we are saying that culture must be upgraded, enhanced, and we have to in the international community agree that culture, as a human good, as a way of life as well and as an industry of course, must take its rightful place in globalization today. I have written certain texts when I was on this issue and this was something that I was deeply interested in.
So there is a preliminary agreement. I first put the idea to the Chinese, who immediately agreed, and the Egyptians agreed that they will support this, and thereafter we discussed it with the Italians, and then with Ms Mogherini and she was happy, she was overjoyed that a member-state of the EU was proposing is. And off the record, she said, “Why didn’t we think of this for so many years?”, because it was easy to do so in Rome. And then, Latin American countries came forward. Thereafter, we’ve got a couple of issues which need to be solved politically and then we will move to the practicalities.
I have asked the Ambassador-at-large to take on this particular battle, to set the ball rolling, but the practicalities will be looked to by the Ambassador and we can of course then come forward with the binding statements thereon.
JOURNALIST (Press Agency of Athens): Minister, as concerns the refugee issue, we know that recently Europe started exerting pressure with a view to us working together with Turkey. What about your intervention here, within the context of this International Conference? You said during your statement that you are happy with working together with Bulgaria and Turkey, but there will be no joint patrolling. So, what sort of cooperation do you have in mind with both Bulgaria and Turkey?
N. KOTZIAS: Together with the Secretary General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, he is a top diplomat, we had a number of discussions with both Bulgaria and Turkey. And with the latter we agreed that when it comes to cross-border cooperation, it cannot be confined to point-to-point cooperation, say one police station with another police station or one coastguard unit with another one.
So we have to opt for a top-down approach, which means that there must be an understanding and cooperation and concerted efforts exerted on all levels. The Ministers have to agree between themselves and decide how we are going to work in terms of return and readmission. We have to work in an integrated manner throughout.
We look forward to cooperating with Turkey and the same goes for cooperation with Bulgaria. We have various issues that we need to tackle, issues that are pertinent to the refugee inflows and the economic migrants.
Within this context we have a rather integrated strategy. One aspect of this strategy concerns our cooperation with our neighbours. The second aspect of this strategy concerns the fact that the EU has at long last to enforce the existing agreements, because a lot of money is given, billions for that matter, is given to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Let me remind you that we had 300,000 economic refugees and migrants from the aforementioned countries, and let me also remind you of the fact that in 2015 more than 20% of migrants and refugees actually come from those two countries.
Third, we also insist within the framework of the European Commission, we insist on the fact that what is necessary is to have strategic partnership, including Lebanon and Jordan. We have to ensure stability in those two countries, because it is possible this destabilization could lead to new inflows of refugees and migrants.
And there is another point that time and again I have insisted on. We have told the European Commission moreover that we have to have money and funds for the various settlements in Jordan and Lebanon. I have been keeping track of developments there personally as of last summer, and I saw that in the old days we had even 200 dollars per household or family of refugees every month. At the start of the summer, 13 dollars per month were given to those families, which means almost on average 43 cents per family per day. And this is the money allocated for accommodation, food, apparel. And I had told the European Union that we are going to be faced with another inflow of migrants, not because of war, but because of the fact that certain people had left the conflict states, left the settlements and can’t make it there, so they are going to move elsewhere. Nobody listened to me and those of you who have kept track of developments through the international press would probably have ascertained that unfortunately we were right about this approach of ours.
And one last thing: Egypt. Somalia has about 15 million of population, Sudan has 42 million, South and North Soudan, 24 to 16 and then 96 million is the population of the Egypt. Should Egypt be destabilized? And let me remind you of the fact that Sudan is about to end its civil war and Somalia is still a failed state. So if we open the can of worms with Egypt, then we will not be faced with millions, but rather with tens of millions. 62 million out of the 92 are actually young people, less than 28 years old.
And the only way out is to work with Turkey and Bulgaria. Bulgaria of course is an EU member-state, which is different. We also have to find a political solution to the Syrian issue. We have to find a way to put an end to this war; it all begins there. We also have to make sure there is no destabilization in Lebanon and Jordan through specific and special policies enforced and put in place by the EU. We also have to make sure there are no problems in Egypt. We also have to fund settlements. So we need a cluster of measures.
In my mind, this cluster of measures needs to be carefully dealt with. This is a package of measures. Should we fail to make that or take those measures, if we don’t put an end to the war in Syria, then we will still be receiving refugees, so we will still be faced with the refugee issue.
I am an optimistic person, but I have to say that, should we fail to take measures in the aforementioned direction, then the forthcoming or the next waves of refugees will be more desperate I am afraid, and I think you understand where I am driving at.
JOURNALIST (Epikaira): Minister, my question is as to the resolution, what sort of diplomatic value would there be in this statement if it only comes from the presidium? And will it be sent out to international organizations? Will there be a diplomatic channeling of this?
N. KOTZIAS: Well, the overwhelming majority of the delegations support this resolution. A very few were not in a position to decide on their own here.
To facilitate things and to avoid lengthy discussion for two or three delegations, when there were 60 to 70 delegations here, we have undertaken to send it out to everybody and to use it as a working document for Athens – the Athens Document – for the Observatory, but also in our relations with other players in the Middle East.
Thank you.
MR. STAVROULAKIS: Minister, recently Turkey touched, if I can use that word, upon the pipeline in Cyprus. Perhaps a comment on that from you, but taking in mind the statement made by the Head of Parliament in Cyprus. My question therefore is could you comment on this particular issue and how is that linked into the issue of lifting the guarantee treaty?
N. KOTZIAS: On Sunday I am going to Cyprus for discussions, on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday I will stay there for the 28th of October celebrations, to avoid comings and goings of Ministers, but I think that we are going to be able to touch upon all of these issues there.
It is my deep belief that any individual, collective body or state that wants to reach a solution to the Cyprus issue, this solution must be a fully independent and sovereign state as part of the current international globalization, because it is a member-state of the EU, so I don’t think that you need to have guarantees if you are a member-state of the EU. And I think that the guarantee treaty has been violated on many occasions by Turkey, and the point was protection afforded from a state A to B vis-à-vis a third state. It is not at all for occupation by state A and state B.
So the guarantee regime in fact is something which is completely obsolete and outdated, and not in line with international law and United Nations conventions as they are today. So it has to end. In my opinion, there cannot be a positive result in the referendum without an end to the occupation or the occupation’s end being provided for by the agreement.
Now, the matter of the water pipeline is also linked, in my opinion, to the matter of the attempt on the part of certain parties, including Turkey, for there to be a reverse-flow natural gas pipeline as well.
G. MOUTSOS: Minister, with regard to everything we have heard about recently, a lot was said about money that needs to be paid by the EU member-state in order to support and aid the countries that are being dealt a blow by such developments. Do you expect more money to be given to Greece in order to support and help the refugees? And as to the political and economic issues, do you possibly see the involvement of Greece in a non-political solution in Syria or elsewhere?
N. KOTZIAS: My answer to the latter part of your question is no. No, we have no business whatsoever to be involved in peace initiatives in the Middle East. We will just take Greek initiatives and we are not going to be involved further. The Middle East trusts us and appreciates us, exactly because we are a sincere and honest interlocutor and mediator.
I would say that we are maybe one of the very few nations that are friends with everyone. We are friends with Israel, Palestine, we are friends with the United Arab Emirates, we are friends with Iran. This is one of our successes. There is no reason whatsoever why we should do away with such a success and work otherwise.
Now, as concerns the refugees, Greece has already paid a lot and a high price and toll through the hospitality we have offered, and so we would require and expect the EU to grant us what should be granted. And when it comes to giving amounts of money, they shouldn’t be taken into account alongside any other expenses made and incurred because of public debt.
MR. KOSTIDIS: Minister, you made mention of the refugee situation and a common coordination with Turkey at the highest level. Would this include common patrols, which have been discussed?
N. KOTZIAS: No, collaboration does not mean common patrols, no common action. I said this and I must express my surprise when the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said this, weeks ago, and the Prime Minister announced this in Parliament, that the opposition should come back and keep saying that we have bad intentions.
I think that in Greece we need to maintain sobriety and seriousness as concerns our foreign policy.
A. LOUDAROS: Let’s go back to church affairs, just like we started actually.
The Patriarch of Antioch made an appeal to the international community so as for his abducted brother’s issue to be dealt with and there was also a second metropolitan bishop, the bishop of Allepo who was abducted. Does the Greek government intent to raise the same issue before the international community officially? And on the record the two bishops are wrote-off as abducted and we have had no news in the meantime.
And second, since this crisis mostly has religious motives or reasons behind it, does the Greek government intent to beef-up the so-called religious diplomacy?
N. KOTZIAS: First, as soon as the Patriarch of Antioch took the floor, I insisted on our support to his appeal, on the spot. I urged right there and then all the participants, all the delegations, because this was an International Conference of states and religions, I urged everyone to support this appeal; but of course this calls for practical measures, this is not the time and this is not the place either.
I also think that religious diplomacy is very important, which is why if you remember, before the end of the seven-month mandate of ours and the end of the last government’s mandate, if you will, the Prime Minister graced us with Mr Amanatidis, in the sense that he appointed Mr Amanatidis. Amanatidis is the Deputy Minister, he is well-versed in religious affairs, he is trusted by the church and he is being put in charge with regard to promoting religious diplomacy.
And I know this does not have to do with your question, but then again let me tell you this. Last night, I had a discussion over dinner with foreign ministers and Mrs Kountoura, the Minister of Tourism of Greece, was there. And when it comes to religious tourism and the tourist industry developing, we have taken steps in that direction. Of the 22 million tourists we expected this year, we expect to have 26 by the end of this year, and I think that is €2.2 billion more in receipts.
And the dialogue we had in here, the productive exploitation of religious tourism, religious diplomacy, they are always there, at the center of our thinking. And thank you for your question.
Thank you very much, and good afternoon.
October 20, 2015