JOURNALIST: Our news show bids good evening to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nikos Dendias. Good evening, Minister.
You met with field marshal Haftar, who arrived in Athens last night, two days ahead of the Berlin conference.
You said in your statements that you asked him to participate constructively in this conference. And I want to ask, how does this constructiveness translate for Greek interests? And I want to ask you straight out: Do you expect field marshal Haftar to work on our behalf in our absence?
N. DENDIAS: I’ll answer frankly and honestly, having said good evening to you viewers. We always talk with a sense of our own interests and of our duties as a member state of the European Union.
What is Europe’s position on the Libya issue? It is a position drawn from the UN Security Council resolutions and the positions set down at the latest European Council meeting.
Which means a truce, ceasefire. And beyond that, among other things, recognition that the memoranda between Libya – the government in Tripoli that is– and Turkey are null and void.
JOURNALIST: During your meeting, Minister, did you get a commitment from field marshal Haftar that he will include the annulment of the two memoranda in the conditions he sets for beginning the peace process?
N. DENDIAS: Field marshal Haftar himself demands the annulment of the two memoranda. He considers them damaging to Libya and damaging to the Libyan people.
I can’t tell you whether he will set it as a necessary condition for concluding a truce. But it is absolutely certain that the Haftar side is pursuing the annulment of these two memoranda as damaging to Libya and to Libyan citizens, so their goal is the annulment of these two memoranda.
But it isn’t just the Haftar side pursuing this. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, the United Arab Emirates, Cyprus, Israel, France and the United states all share this position, as does the European Union, as expressed at the latest meeting of the European Council.
And I want to be absolutely clear on this ...
JOURNALIST: Why aren’t we going to the conference, Minister?
N. DENDIAS: I’ll be frank and honest. The proceedings of this Conference started about five years ago. There was a meeting in Paris, there was a meeting in Abu Dhabi. I’m talking about years ago.
At that time, Greece chose not to participate in initiatives organized by others. It wanted, in the view of the government at the time, to create its own initiatives.
Greece hasn't participated in the initiatives for Syria, either – as you well know. When the current government began its effort to participate, it was late in the game. I think it was a mistake for the German side not to accept our delayed participation, in spite of my efforts and those of the prime minister and, I think, Greek politicians in general, when we realised what our non-participation in the developments in Libya means.
The current government clearly understood. It began pursuing our participation in July. I think Germany made a mistake. They didn’t agree to let us join, but that’s a conversation we’ll have after Berlin.
What’s important now is that Germany has an obligation – as do Mr. Borrell, Ms. von der Leyen and Mr. Michel, who are participating in the conference – to defend the European position. The European position is the position set down at the latest meeting of the European Council. It is accepted by all the member states. It was a unanimous decision and this decision includes recognition of the fact that the two memoranda are null and void.
So, Germany can’t just remove its European cap and not pursue the nullification of these two memoranda. If it does do that ...
JOURNALIST: With all due respect to all the diplomatic moves you have made, I’d like you to tell us something about the background of Haftar’s visit to Athens. These were obviously moves you’d been making for some time now. There a lot of preparation involved.
N. DENDIAS: I have nothing to hide, but as you can understand, not everything that happens can happen out in the open. I went and met with field marshal Haftar. We agreed at that time that field marshal Haftar would visit Athens.
Both sides deemed that this was the right time. This is the time when his visit to Athens and to Greece – and his meeting with me and, mainly, the prime minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis – creates a certain added value for his side in the peace process and for our side.
We want there to be peace in Libya, but peace that is certain. We want there to be stability in the region, not just a temporary truce that breaks down after a few weeks or a month.
We want a lasting peace that benefits the region and the Libyan people.
JOURNALIST: Yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he would use his veto in the European Union if the memorandum isn’t nullified. Do you expect a result on this from Sunday’s conference, or do you have more moderate expectations?
N. DENDIAS: I’ll be honest. We don’t have great expectations. The Berlin meeting on Sunday is one stage of the process. It’s not the end of the process. In other words, don’t expect everything to happen in ...
JOURNALIST: What’s the best you expect at this stage?
N. DENDIAS: At this stage we expect – and we are encouraging field marshal Haftar in this direction – a truce and an initial understanding on withdrawal of foreign elements and foreign powers from Libya, so you can see that Turkey figures prominently in this. Turkey is the foreign power most involved in Libya.
And beyond that, we want Libyan society to be able to find its way. And a necessary component of this way is the nullification of these two memoranda, because these two memoranda are, in reality, an umbrella for a foreign intervention in Libya. The umbrella for Turkey’s intervention in Libya.
So, we want Berlin to be a step in the Libyan peace process. We are encouraging field marshal Haftar in this direction. We are in communication with all of the players dealing with this issue, including the United States. We hope we have done our small bit for peace and stability in the region.
JOURNALIST: Haftar’s arrival in Athens yesterday obviously annoyed Ankara. It’s a move that has annoyed Erdogan, who has proceeded non-stop in recent months. We’ve seen constant provocations. We’ve had constant violations and flyovers, and last week they flew over Leros. They’re flying over inhabited islands.
In this whole context he is intervening in international conferences, signing memoranda. He’s simply ignoring us, and we say he is isolated. What exactly has he been isolated from?
N. DENDIAS: Let’s not get into an overall assessment of Greek foreign policy in regard to Turkish foreign policy. I’ll say two different things. The first is that Greece is not acting to create opposition to Turkey.
Greece acts, first and foremost, to serve its national interest, to serve European interests and to serve peace and stability in the region.
Greece does not see the world in bipolar Greek-Turkish terms. Greece does not see every conflict as a zero-sum game. We believe we can achieve gains for all of the peoples in the region if we all follow the rules of good neighbourly relations and international law.
This is what we are pursuing.
JOURNALIST: Are you concerned about the quantitative and qualitative increase in violations and flyovers in the Aegean?
N. DENDIAS: Excuse me. I’ll get to that. In an ideal world, we would like to bring Turkey into this mindset. Beyond that, it's up to Turkey.
Now I want to say something: Greece pursues good neighbourly relations, including with Turkey. Turkey is not helping us in these efforts. Greece has a very clear position. I think it’s a very clear position that all of the international players hear. The Prime Minister expressed this position at the White House, in the Oval Office.
We have a dispute with Turkey. Right. Let's set out our dispute with Turkey. In our view, our dispute is only the continental shelf and exclusive economic zone, and if we can’t reach an agreement by discussing the matter between us, let's take our dispute to an international legal body, such as the Court in The Hague.
But in a civilized, modern way, dealing with things in the 21st-century way. Not through memoranda, flyovers or rhetoric.
JOURNALIST: We’re setting down our differences, Minister, but at the same time, Turkey’s provocations are continuing. Are you concerned?
N. DENDIAS: I didn’t say Turkey operates correctly. In my opinion, Turkey operates to the detriment of stability in the region and, if you will, in my opinion, to the detriment of Turkish society’s interests.
Greece wants a European Turkey. A Turkey that participates in a modern Europe. A friendly Turkey. A Turkey we can work with.
Turkey doesn’t seem to be pursuing the same goals as us, though it does give us indications to the contrary sometimes. If, for example, you look at the latest interview from Mr. Cavusoglu on CNN Turk, he said things that suggest that maybe Turkey also sees things differently.
But its general conduct so far has not allowed us to draw positive conclusions, as we would like to. But I say again, Greece is a modern European country. It doesn’t believe in gunboat diplomacy. It believes in a policy of international law and understanding with other peoples.
That is the policy we serve.
JOURNALIST: Let’s talk about yesterday’s threat from Erdogan – that he will carry out drilling, in 2020, in areas he has agreed on with Libya. In other words, south of Kastelorizo.
If this happens, if he carries out this threat and sends the survey ship to the region, what will you do?
N. DENDIAS: First of all, we are very clear. I won’t respond to the specific question you asked. Why? Because I don’t like scaremongering. I believe that, at the end of the day, President Erdogan and the Turkish government and the Turkish Foreign Minister, Mr. Cavusoglu, are people who look clearly to the interests of their country and their society, and won’t do things that damage their country and the stability of the region.
Now, as for Greece. What will we do? What will we do in general? Like every Greek government, the Mitsotakis government will defend our national rights and national interests, fulfilling our constitutional duty.
We have been crystal clear on this in every direction: that we don’t have a choice on this. No Greek government can fail to carry out its constitutional duty to defend our national sovereignty and national sovereign rights.
So this is our position. It’s very clear. It’s a modern, European position we have declared in every manner, and we will continue to do so.
JOURNALIST: I’d like one last comment from you on the activity we have seen from France. In other words, the rebuke from Macron over the memorandum, which we saw yesterday, and the French aircraft carrier sent to accompany the Greek frigates on joint patrols in the Eastern Mediterranean.
What is your assessment of these moves?
N. DENDIAS: Greece has an excellent relationship with France and President Macron, and with my friend the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Le Drian. Mr. Mitsotakis talks with President Macron very frequently. We see the challenges in the wider region in the same way. We believe in the European course. We believe in stability, peace, understanding. We believe in developing relationships.
So, we think that, in this context, France’s presence in the region is a very positive factor. This was already clear in the recent meeting we had in Cairo, where, together with Mr. Le Drian, Cyprus, Egypt and Greece signed a communique on the developments in the region.
I think the presence of the French aircraft carrier, which has the excellent name ‘Charles de Gaulle’, accompanied by Greek frigates – which I think was announced by Mr. Macron yesterday – is an additional factor for stability and security in the region.
And I would like to express the hope, if not the certainty, that all of the countries of the region welcome this French initiative.
JOURNALIST: Minister, thank you very much for being here on the ERT evening news.
N. DENDIAS: Thank you very much for having me.
January 17, 2020