N. KOTZIAS: It is a great pleasure to welcome the Foreign Minister of Poland, Mr. Waszczykowski, to the Foreign Ministry today. He also met with the President of the Republic, who extended an invitation to the President of the Republic of Poland, for 2017.
For us, Poland is a large and important country of the European Union, and we feel great pleasure that we contributed, through the work we did as the Presidency, 13 years ago, to Poland's accession to the European Union.
It was a major gain, and my friend the Foreign Minister and I discussed the fact that, following a productive period of EU enlargements, we are faced with a reverse situation, with the United Kingdom wanting to leave the European Union -- the Brexit. My colleague and I discussed this in detail. We thought of ways to collaborate and share experiences and information on this issue.
Overall, we had a substantial exchange of thoughts and views on the future of the European Union, on the need for us to talk about this, to explore and to underscore that we want the European Union, but we believe that the role of the nation states and their parliaments is always important.
Poland and Greece have common concerns about the future of Europe and how to face the major problem of refugees and economic migrants.
There are a number of creative proposals from the Polish side; proposals that coincide with our older analyses, such as that we have to contribute in all ways to ending the war in Syria and in Iraq. We need to try to keep the refugees in countries neighbouring on Syria and Iraq, and, in particular, we need to help the refugees who are in Jordan and Lebanon.
I want to express my great appreciation for these two countries, which have done miracles in the manner they are dealing with the refugees. I also want to say that, six days from today, we will be visiting Lebanon together with the Foreign Ministers of Bulgaria and Cyprus. This visit is a symbolic act of friendship and support for the country's stability, especially now, with the election of the new president, who is also the father-in-law of the Foreign Minister -- for any of you who were in Rhodes -- Mr. Bassil.
I also made a personal presentation to my friend the Minister of the problems and our policy in the region. In particular with regard to the Eastern Mediterranean, the trilateral cooperation configurations we are promoting and the security structure we created this year in Rhodes. In fact, I explained that we are always open to contributing to the development of Poland's relations of friendship with this region or creating our own joint actions.
I also explained to my friend the Minister our policy on Turkey and on our northern neighbours, with whom, as you know, we have created a new institution of Balkan cross-border cooperation. It is an institution composed of the three northern neighbours and us, and 18 days from today our next meeting will take place, in Thessaloniki, as always.
We also talked about the Cyprus issue and I thanked my friend the Minister for all the help Poland provides to the UN, and particularly its participation in peacekeeping missions.
We also talked about our bilateral relations, the need to develop the cooperation between our two ministries and their Directorates, the need to intensify our cooperation in all sectors, because Poland is an important historical country with a great culture, fast growth and interesting technology.
We see Poland as an important partner with whom we want to develop our multifaceted relationship. The Polish Minister -- having taken a stance on all of these issue, of course -- set out for us the difficulties Poland is facing in its region, the issues concerning Ukraine and Polish-Russian relations.
As you know, the Polish are a wonderful people who love the freedom and independence of their country, and who for centuries struggled to maintain and regain this freedom. That is why they are a people who have the right to be proud of their history and actions.
That is why I want to thank the Polish Foreign Minister once again for being here with us.
W. WASZCZYKOWSKI: I want to thank you warmly for the invitation I received to carry out this visit. I thank you for your warm words about the history of my country. We are very proud to have a history that goes back 11 centuries. But at the centre of culture and democracy, passing by the Acropolis, we are a little overawed by all these years of history and culture. We are the little brother in the European community, and we can only learn from Greece about these matters.
I was very pleased to be briefed by the Minister on the issues this region of Europe is dealing with. Greece is currently facing major crises, particularly with regard to migration. These problems have been created, of course, by all of the situations taking shape in the countries of the Middle East and Africa. That is, by the wars.
But we also talked about our region of Europe. We talked about the issues with Russia, we talked about the issues concerning NATO, about security in our area of Europe, Central and Eastern Europe.
Of course, we also talked about what the Greek Minister mentioned. We talked about the internal situation in the European Union and the Brexit, of course. We talked about the need for us to discuss and deal with the Brexit issue in a "velvet" manner, and of course repair some of the cracks in the foundations of the European Union.
We want Europe to return to the direction of growth, of enlargement, and to be a goal for all of the countries that want to join it.
Returning to the main issue, we talked about issues being dealt with in this part of Europe, about the migrants and refugees. We agree that we cannot resolve this problem if we do not try to solve the problems being created in their countries, so that this flow can be stopped.
If we don't secure Europe's border in some way, if we don't find a solution to the flow of migrants, we will not be able to help all of these weary refugees and people who are looking for a better solution, but without finding one.
As Poland, and as the Visegrad group, last week we proposed the idea of flexible solidarity. We believe that every country in Europe is at a different level of development, has another level of wealth, and of course each country should help to resolve the migrant problem of this crisis. But we should also bear in mind that each country can help to the extent its capabilities allow.
We have to help with the transporting of at least the refugees from Syria to countries of the region, to Jordan, to Lebanon, and we will try very hard to contribute to this, so that the refugees can be moved there and receive the aid there.
Of course, we should work very hard towards the protection of our borders, the borders of Europe. These are the elements that concern the flexible solidarity we are referring to. We are prepared to do our part to offer this assistance.
We also talked about bilateral cooperation. Fortunately, we are two countries that have been collaborating for years now. There is nothing keeping us apart. In fact, there is much that unites us.
But we talked about how we might step up this bilateral cooperation, upgrade it to an even higher level. I am very pleased that the Polish President, Andrzej Duda, will be able to visit Greece next year. I am also very pleased that, in 2019, we can celebrate the 100th anniversary of the conclusion of diplomatic relations between our countries.
I thank you very much for the invitation to visit today.
COORDINATOR: We will have two questions from the Greek press and another two from the Polish press. Please.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Minister, I address my question to the Foreign Minister of Poland, which belongs to the Visegrad countries, and, as you also explained in your statements, right now you are asking for flexible solidarity with regard to the migration issue.
If there is a crisis between Russia and Ukraine, a large migration wave may well go to Poland. Would you then ask for the same reaction from the other countries of the European Union? I would also like to ask whether Visegrad can work in cooperation with Greece on migration and border-security issues.
Mr. Kotzias, you have taken some initiatives regarding Europe's relations with Africa and the Middle East. Do you intend to invite your Polish counterpart to participate in these initiatives? Thank you very much.
W. WASZCZYKOWSKI: We are maintaining this stance because, bearing in mind our capabilities, we really are trying to help resolve the migration crisis. Poland sends navy vessels to the Mediterranean region, it sends border-control personnel through FRONTEX, it participates as much as it can.
Regarding the situation in eastern Europe, we are prepared. We are preparing for the eventuality of a very serious crisis between Ukraine and Russia. Already, last year, Poland issued a million visas for Ukrainian citizens, whom it has received.
This number I'm giving you -- 1 million -- is half of the total number of visas issued by the rest of the European countries. Of course, many Ukrainians come to Poland for short visits, but believe me, many of them stay forever.
And of course many come from Belarus. We issued over 400,000 visas last year, with the result that the labour of the Ukrainians in Poland -- of the Ukrainians who stay -- creates income that they send back to their country. So this is indirect assistance that we provide to the citizens of Ukraine, and it is a repercussion that we accept due to the crisis between Russia and Ukraine.
N. KOTZIAS: Today my Polish colleague and I exchanged experiences, particularly regarding the multiple initiatives we have taken in the Eastern Mediterranean, the Middle East and the Balkans -- with the Balkan countries that are not member states of the Union, as well as with those that are in the EU.
If Poland feels the need or interest to participate in or be kept informed of any of these initiatives, it need only say the word. We are always open, because I underscore again that, for us, Poland is a great friend.
JOURNALIST: A question for Minister Kotzias. The latest statement from the prime minister, Mr. Tsipras, which talked about the possibility of blocking European money for countries that don't help with the matter of the migration crisis. Do you agree with that statement?
N. KOTZIAS: The Foreign Minister always agrees with his Prime Minister. If he doesn't agree, he resigns.
Second, the Foreign Minister works with his Prime Minister on Foreign Policy; on formulating the policy.
Third, these statements are things that have been said many, many times by Commissioners, and fourth, I am a fan of our listening attentively, in due course, to the discussions and all of the proposals as December approaches. To me, the proposal set out for me today by my Polish colleague, on behalf of the Visegrad group, is also extremely interesting.
Thoughts are expressed at the table, and in December, all together, we will decide.
JOURNALIST: A question for both Ministers. Today you talked about the situation in the Balkans and how the notorious Balkan route is taking shape.
I would like to ask the Polish Foreign Minister how much longer he thinks this route can stay hermetically sealed against the refugee flows. And I would like to ask the Greek Foreign Minister whether he has any comment on the latest historical references made by the Albanian Prime Minister, Edi Rama, regarding Greeks and their cultural symbols.
W. WASZCZYKOWSKI: Returning to the problem of the migration crisis, I would like to stress that this problem has been created by others, because Europe allowed a large group of mostly migrants, and not refugees, to get by, and they were not registered as illegal migrants, but as refugees. That was the main problem, which created more problems.
Most of the people who crossed into Greece, into Italy, into Europe were illegal migrants and they should be returned to their countries. Of course, I understand that these are very poor countries, but they are not in a state of conflict. So they don't satisfy the requirements for our calling them refugees. Unfortunately, Europe at that time was not capable of taking on this issue, and that is why this problem exists today.
The second issue is that the majority of these people want to reach the wealthier European countries. So our separating them by force and transporting them to various countries is not very humanitarian.
We in Poland cannot accept this, because we have the experience, because many times during the 19th century, during the Second World War, we experienced the transporting of groups of people from one region to another. We do not want to contribute to, to be associated with, this action; that is, moving people somewhere against their will. In the Europe of the 21st century, we cannot forcefully keep people in centres; people who don't want to be there. So if we allow them to enter Europe, they should be free to go where they want.
If we can't tolerate that, we should protect our borders from the outset and not allow it. We should be courageous. We mustn't stick our heads in the sand.
We have to deal with the problem.
N. KOTZIAS: You know that in the European Union we have a major debate about the refugee issue. There are different opinions, and we practically always come to some conclusion.
I would like to reiterate that the refugee problem was not created by Poland or Greece. The refugee problem was created by the wars in Syria, Iraq and Libya. The big problem is that those who started the wars and carried out the bombings are calling on us to pay for the results of their mistaken choices.
And there are also some states that are much wealthier than we are and that called on the refugees to move, and the refugees followed the call. What I see is that each people has its culture, and words are often heard in a different way in each country. The word "relocation," for instance, which may sound neutral to us, may for other peoples have negative historical meanings and associations, and we have to respect this.
With regard to history, I said yesterday, I responded in detail, I can repeat what I said yesterday: history must be a school for all of us, not a prison. We have to treat history seriously and be serious, and not with witticisms, and third, history is based on real events, and not on retrospective fabrications.
But I want to add a comment today, following everything I heard about this. I am proud when a Pakistani intellectual says that, because he is a descendant of Alexander the Great, he has a 2.000-year relationship with Greece. I have no problem with that.
I also like it that Alexandria, in Egypt, is called Alexandria. Why should I have a problem with that? Anyone who doesn't like Greek culture and Greek history is welcome not to like it. But he mustn't reach the point of thinking that it's his -- exclusively his, in fact -- and not Greek at all. He is then drawing silly conclusions.
JOURNALIST: I would like to return to the issue of the security of the EU's borders. The Turkish Defence Minister said that the NATO action in the Mediterranean has ended and that the vessels should leave the region.
But the EU Ministers said that we should probably extend this action for next year as well. What do both of you say to this?
W. WASZCZYKOWSKI: The issue of the NATO action in the Mediterranean has also been discussed in Brussels. Some initial decisions have been taken for these activities to be continued, and Poland will of course participate in this. It has sent its own navy vessels.
Of course, we intend to participate in the next action as well, in the first half of the coming year. We will send one more navy vessel. I think that the problem of this action, this initiative, will be discussed in December, as well, at the meeting of the Ministers of NATO states, in Brussels.
N. KOTZIAS: I think what is missing from Turkey's thinking is their telling us straight out what their assessment is of the presence of NATO vessels in the Aegean. If they contributed to stopping the flows of refugees, why should they leave?
The only reason one might want them to leave is for this control not to exist. And read the word control in every way that you can interpret it.
Thank you very much. I also thank my colleague. Thank you.
And I thank the Polish and English interpreters. Thank you very much.
November 3, 2016