N. KOTZIAS: Good day, though it is a nice day even without my wishing you one, I think. I am happy to have here with us in Athens one of the most important people in international diplomacy, Sergey Lavrov.
This is the third visit to Greece, within a very short time, by a high-level Russian official. Russia is a country with which Greece has traditional political, economic and cultural ties, while very many important moments in history, through the centuries, link the two countries.
The role Greek culture, Byzantium, played in shaping Russia is well known. Also well known is the extent to which Russian literature, music and other arts have influenced Greek citizens, and Greek intellectuals in particular.
In my generation, there was no one who had not read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy, who had not seen the plays of Gorky and Gogol, who had not heard the music of Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich. Our relations have deep and extensive roots.
Today, in a time of instability in our region, Greece is the country of stability, the country that has taken initiatives for peace, understanding and cooperation in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Balkans. In our region, there are many politicians who think in old ways. There is old nationalism being manifested in a new way.
And Greece, I repeat, a strong country -- in spite of the crisis -- has a responsibility to contribute to peace and stability. My colleague Sergey Lavrov and I talked about the region's issues, the war in Syria that must end, and the peace that must be achieved, because, as I have said, two principles hold true.
First, Greece is not a country that started the wars in the region, but it is paying the consequences of these wars. More than Greece, however, the people of the states of Iraq, of Syria, of Libya and the whole region are paying with the loss of hundreds of thousands of human lives. And at the same time, millions of people are paying for these wars by being forced out of their homes and homelands.
The deepest root of the refugee problem lies in these wars, and that is why I have often said that we in Western Europe, in Europe as a whole, need an anti-war movement that strikes at the root of the problem. The wars in the region must end.
Beyond Syria and Iraq, we also discussed Middle East issues in general, the issues of Greek and Russian foreign policy in the region, and, of course, we talked about North Africa and, in particular, about Libya, where we support the need for the successful functioning of the government of national unity and that government's including those forces that have a special role, in an exceptional way, in eastern Libya.
We talked about, and our views coincided on, the need to follow a policy of stability for Egypt, a policy that takes into account that a blind destabilisation of states like Egypt will create large refugee and migration currents that will exceed those we have seen to date, taking on much greater dimensions.
We also talked about the results of the Year of Greece and Russia, which was a great success. We wish it ever-greater success. We saw aspects of this programme here today, going to the Greek-Russian Cooperation Forum, going to the opening of the exhibit from the Hermitage Museum, this wonderful museum, which is taking place at another wonderful, if smaller, museum, the Byzantine Museum of Athens. We will also have the pleasure of going, afterwards, to the University of Piraeus, where I had the good fortune to teach, for years, the foreign policy of Greece and a number of other countries, including Russia. In fact, at this university there is a special graduate programme on Russia and China.
We also agreed on the need to support the humanitarian aid that has to be given to the regions I mentioned. And of course we talked about the Cyprus issue.
I would like to thank Russia publicly for the firm position it has maintained since the Cyprus problem's inception; a stance of support for the sovereignty and independence of the Republic of Cyprus. Moreover, just the other day my good friend the Foreign Minister of Cyprus, Ioannis Kasoulides, was in Moscow and met with Sergey Lavrov, once again reaffirming the coincidence of the two countries' views. And by extension, of our views.
I also want to thank the Russian people, who have a particular fondness for Greece, which is expressed in the rapid rate of growth in tourism, despite the economic difficulties Russia, too, is facing, with the fall in the value of the Ruble and the issues in Russia's relations with the West. This tourist flow grew stronger this year, as did our cultural exchanges.
We also talked about Russia's relations with the EU and NATO. I reiterated to my friend that Greece believes in the need for a European security architecture that includes Russia and does not move against Russia. I remind you that, in the most difficult moments of the Cold War, when the relations between the then USSR and the West were very tense, we managed to shape the Helsinki agreement, to formulate a framework that ensured the rights of citizens, recognized borders as they were established after the Second World War, thus stabilising the relations between the West and East.
We have an extensive agenda for our talks. We will continue with the issues of our bilateral relations. Sergey Lavrov discussed these issues with the President of the Republic, Prokopis Pavlopoulos, and Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. The discussion concerned many aspects of economic cooperation in our bilateral relations. Aspects of cooperation that include all sectors.
I would like once again to thank you for you for being here. I would like to thank the interpreters, without whom all of these words would not have been translated into the other language, and above all I would like to thank my friend Sergey Lavrov for his good will, the support he provides on major problems of the region, and the efforts he makes personally for peace and the resolution of the problems in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East.
Once again, welcome to sunny Athens. It is nice to have you with us, Sergey Lavrov. Thank you very much.
S. LAVROV: The talks with Nikos Kotzias were very comprehensive, specific, and were carried out in an atmosphere of friendship, mutual trust and respect for each side's positions, which reflects the close ties between our countries and our peoples.
I would like to thank our Greek friends for their hospitality and the very warm welcome.
We talked about the situation in our bilateral relations, first of all in the context of the agreements concluded during President Putin's visit to Greece in May. We noted that there is active development of the political dialogue, the meetings between the competent ministries, as well as between the foreign ministries. We signed the Programme of consultations between our two countries' Foreign Ministries for the years 2017-2019. This alone shows that our scheduling covers quite a long-term timeline, and we are not limiting ourselves to the current problems in international relations.
In the economic and trade sector, the agenda was not too comprehensive, because tomorrow and the day after we will have the regular meeting of the Greek-Russian Joint Interministerial Committee on economic, industrial, scientific and technological cooperation. In this context, the two delegations will discuss the potential for overcoming the negative trends that, for reasons we all know, can be seen in our country's trade and economic relations. We are agreed that there is a great deal of room for enhancing cooperation in the energy sector. I think we will have a comprehensive discussion on this topic with the goal of achieving practical results.
Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias referred to the very impressive programme of the Year of Greece and Russia, with was carried out under the auspices of President Putin and Prime Minister Tsipras. Some 170 events in the sectors of culture, science, education, tourism, sports and commercial and economic relations. The results of these events reflect the mutual fondness of our peoples and the inclination to expand cooperation in all sectors.
It is with pleasure that I underscore that tourism flows from Russia to Greece increased by 20% in the first six months of the year, and, if I remember correctly, this is a record. I hope that even more Russians will choose beautiful Greece for their holiday destination.
Of the international issues, we discussed the situation in the relations between Russia and the EU, as well as between Russia and NATO. We very much appreciate that Greece is among the countries that, for reasons of principle, reject the conflict and are in favour of dialogue on the more complex issues, and in favour of seeking mutually acceptable solutions.
We talked about the conflict in Ukraine. We have a shared stance in favour of the implementation of the Minsk agreements. This process has been delayed a long time. The recent meeting of the leaders of the Normandy group in Berlin provides hope that the full implementation of the Minsk agreements, including the timeline provided for, will be intensified.
We also talked about the crisis in the Middle East and North Africa, Syria, Libya, Yemen. Unfortunately, the situation in Iraq doesn't give us much hope. We have a shared line, which is this: that the UN Security Council resolutions be implemented with regard to Syria, the crisis in Yemen and the crisis in Libya. And in the crisis in Iraq, the UN can add its strong and useful voice.
Of course we talked about the situation taking shape on the Cyprus issue. Here, too, as in the other crises, we have to see the implementation of the UN Security Council resolutions, which contain the framework of the settlement, which should be viable and acceptable to the Turkish Cypriots and the Greek Cypriots.
We talked about stability and cooperation in the region of Southeast Europe and the prospects for deepening the cooperation between the Balkan countries.
As the Greek Foreign Minister, Nikos Kotzias, already mentioned, our schedule today is rich and has to do with the cooperation between the representatives of civil society. We just visited the social Forum and the Byzantine Museum, where the exhibit from the State Hermitage Museum was officially opened.
I want to say that, historically, Greece and Russia have very close ties. The cities of southern Russian, like Gelendzhik and Novorossiysk, were founded by the ancient Greeks. Russia has had a presence on Mount Athos for a thousand years now. Whenever Greeks are in Russia -- or Russians are in Greece -- they feel at home and as if they have essentially gained a second homeland. A shining example is Ioannis Kapodistrias, whose role in the history of Russia and Greece cannot be overstated.
Two very symbolic events took place in July. In Sevastopol, the statue commemorating the Greek legion of Emperor Nikolas I – the members of which participated in the defence of Sevastopol in the Crimean War in 1853-1856 – was unveiled. Also in July, but this time in Greece, on the island of Kythira, there were events commemorating the Russian admiral Nikolai Filosofof, who emigrated from Russia to Greece following the October Revolution and played a role in the protection of the island during the German occupation in World War II.
Our Ministry has often forwarded to our Greek friends copies of archived documents related to the history of our country. Today I would like to continue this fine tradition. We will deliver to the Greek side a copy of Catherine II's Decree to the distinguished religious and lay figures of Greece, expressing a call for them to initiate the struggle against the oppressors of the freedom and faith of the Greek people, in 1788. This manifesto, which came out during the years of the Russo-Turkish war, was actively distributed among the Greeks and met with a strong response.
And the second document, of December 1826, is the letter of the Greek warlords to Russian Emperor Nikolas I, urging him to support the struggle of the Greek people and help Greece gain its independence. I hope that these documents will be of interest not just to specialists, but to the general public, and that our cooperation will continue in this sector as in all the other sectors.
I deliver the copies of the documents to the Foreign Minister of Greece, Nikos Kotzias, and I thank you for your attention.
JOURNALIST: Good morning. The question is for Mr. Kotzias. Greece is an old friend of Russia, but it is also a member of NATO. Russia-NATO relations are cold, as we see from the Alliance's presence in eastern Europe and from the postponement of the meeting between the Balkan countries and Russia. I would like to know Greece's stance on Russia-NATO relations.
N. KOTZIAS: The foundation of our policy concerning the West's relations with Russia is that we have to find a way to create a joint security and stability architecture.
That is why we were the country that proposed the reactivation of the NATO-Russia Council. We believe that the channels of communication and discussion between the two sides must remain open and that we need to put together an agenda in the context of which specific discussions have to take place -- sincere and frank discussions -- regarding the differences NATO and Russia have.
The last thing I want to note. It is natural for there to be disagreements within an Organization with regard to its priorities. In NATO there are powers that, following the Second World War, felt the Russian army as an occupation army -- and Greece was not among them -- while there are powers who, during the Second World War, saw the arrival of the Russian army as liberating. We have a different historical memory and historical interpretation. At the same time, we belong to the same space, NATO, which means that there are lively discussions within the Organization itself regarding how NATO should behave towards Russia.
There are forces expressing doubts as to whether NATO should have relations with Russia. There are forces, like Germany, Italy, Greece, France -- strong powers within the Alliance -- that want understanding with Russia, and I think that pragmatism will win points within NATO.
The conduct -- including that of the American government -- is pragmatic conduct, and we will be able to reopen the dialogue between NATO and Russia on substantial issues and talk about how we can again transform Europe into a common home for both sides.
JOURNALIST: In recent weeks we have been hearing statements that question the Treaty of Lausanne, talking of "borders of the heart", from the Caucasus to the Balkans. They dispute the borders of Syria, Iraq, of Greece in the Aegean.
Moreover, for many years Greece has been suffering the consequences of such an outlook, with the violations of Greek airspace and flyovers even of inhabited Greek islands. I would like to ask what the Russian government's stance is on these statements.
And a second question regarding the Cyprus issue. Whether Russia, as a member of the Security Council, thinks the Security Council might play a positive role in the implementation of a solution, provided the two Communities reach one.
S. LAVROV: The answer to your first question is very simple. On all issues there must be respect for international law and the obligations deriving from international agreements.
Today we discussed the Cyprus issue in depth. As I said in my introductory remarks, there must be respect for international law, which is also reflected in the UN Security Council's resolutions. Therein underscored is the need for a solution to be found that is mutually acceptable for the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots; an agreement on the key issues now being discussed: sovereignty, guarantees, property. We mustn't leave this framework.
And I also have to note -- as you asked about the UN Security Council's role -- that the Security Council agreed on the settlement foundations I referred to earlier. Traditionally, the active role of monitoring the negotiations does not belong solely to the UN Secretary General's representative, but also to the five permanent members of the Security Council. This was always a condition, so that the process should remain within the framework of the mutually acceptable approaches and be aimed at mutually acceptable results. I hope that such an outlook will prevail in this case as well. From time to time we hear proposals for artificial timeframes within which everything has to be settled. There are also proposals for specific parameters for the settlement of the Cyprus problem to come from outside. We do not support such proposals. As I understand it, our positions on this coincide with those of our Greek partners.
N. KOTZIAS: I'd like to say something. The 'history of our heart' reaches to India. The Greek heart encompasses India as well. But the borders of our heart are not the borders of international law. You can fall in love with a woman in Hawaii, in Australia – no one prohibits this. But respect for borders is mandatory.
And I want to make two comments regarding history, because of late everyone in our region is talking about history. I say and underscore: History must be a school and not a prison. One must treat history with respect and not with disrespect. One must confront history as it is in reality, and not as something fabricated in hindsight.
JOURNALIST: Hello, I am from the TASS agency, and my question is for the Russian Minister. The U.S. Department of Defense recently talked about the possibility of initiating the operation in Raqqa. How does this relate to the Russian and Syrian stance? Have you received a proposal from the American side that you participate in this operation? If yes, how will you respond?
In your opinion, how will the change of administration in the U.S. affect the process of resolving the crisis in Syria?
S. LAVROV: Regarding your second question, there is no point in our guessing. We will determine our positions based on the real facts, which we will know soon. We will find out who won the elections in the U.S. and what the stance on Syria and other current international issues will be.
Regarding Raqqa, when we talked to America about coordination in Syria with the aim of combating terrorism and establishing cessation of hostilities for those who distanced themselves from the terrorists, we referred to Raqqa as a possible object of joint actions. But afterwards the Americans did not mention this issue. Now they have said they want to carry out an operation to take the Syrian capital of the "Islamic State". But today I heard, if I am not mistaken, that they are changing their plans and this operation is being postponed to an unspecified point in time. I can't say anything more.
We are keeping the channels of communication with the Americans open regarding Syria and eastern Aleppo. I hope that we will get some results and that our American partners won't revoke their consent, as they did with the agreement of 9 September of this year.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Minister, there is great concern over U.S.-Russian relations. In your recent interview on CNN, with Christiane Amanpour, you said that this unhealthy relationship began before Syria and Ukraine. I wanted to ask you when this lack of trust began between Moscow and Washington, and whether you think there is a chance for improvement of these relations under the new American Presidency. Thank you.
S. LAVROV: I don't remember whether I ever referred to the issue that the Ukraine crisis pointed up the problems in our relationship with the U.S. The problems had been accruing for some time, long before the developments in Ukraine, which culminated in the unconstitutional coup, which was supported by the U.S., the EU, and NATO.
The problems began when the U.S. saw that we did not always agree in the discussion of an international issue. When they saw that the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, tried to restore the independence of Russian foreign policy strictly within the framework of international law. But this is our independent course, which takes into account the interests of partners in international talks. We aren't falling into line behind a leading nation that is incorrigibly certain of its specialness.
The President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, said recently that the U.S. is a great power, but this does not mean that everyone else has to play by Washington's rules. If you remember, two or three months ago President Obama said precisely this: the U.S. determines the rules of the game in the world. It is arrogance, but perhaps it was sincere. If that is how our American partners think, perhaps they have to go through a stage of painful realisation that, in this world, no one can do anything alone anymore, and that, in the final analysis, we should reach agreements. The sooner this happens, the better.
N. KOTZIAS: I would like to thank Sergey Lavrov. Thank you very much.
November 2, 2016