JOURNALIST: It is a great pleasure and honor to welcome today the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. George Gerapetritis, at a particularly critical moment for the region, and regarding the developments in our national issues. We warmly thank him for being here with us and welcome him to the “First Programme”. Good morning, Minister.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Good morning. It is a great honor, Ms. Georgiou and Mr. Adamopoulos.
JOURNALIST: Let us begin our discussion, Minister, with today's meeting of the Government Council on National Security (KYSEA), given that the developments in Syria are reshaping the geopolitical balance in the region, creating new realities. To what extent are these developments worrying for the Greek government, particularly in relation to the ongoing dialogue with Türkiye, which appears to be strengthened from these developments and aims to play a more active role in the region?
G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, I would like to point out that the new situation is volatile and for this reason we should avoid any hasty conclusions. We must continue to monitor and prepare for developments, be ready to manage situations, and maintain an active and substantive role. We will constantly reassess the situation.
At the moment, the situation is as follows. We have the fall of Assad’s authoritarian regime, which created enormous problems in the region in the course of his rule. However, we also have a country that is suffering from external interventions, which have placed too much pressure on the citizens. A de facto government appears to be forming, consisting of Islamist groups, who have assumed most of the state’s sovereignty. Kurdish enclaves remain in the northeast and, of course, there are the Russian bases in the Mediterranean. In fact, countries with a long history of influence, whether through financial support or military power, are now trying to impose their participation.
I would like to point out that this issue is being closely monitored by the European Union and the United Nations. From our side, we have been in constant communication with all actors in the region, particularly with the countries of the Arab world. In recent years, Greece has developed a very strong cooperation with the countries of the region and has a very significant regional footprint. As you know, in less than 20 days, Greece assumes a particularly critical and important position, namely that of a member of the UN Security Council, where the new order of the international security architecture will actually be shaped.
However, it is too soon to assess whether the Greek-Turkish relations will be affected by the events in Syria. What I always say is that Greek foreign policy is currently powerful enough so as not to be determined by external parties. We certainly also evaluate Türkiye’s position and stance in the region. We re-evaluate as needed, but we all realize that above all, what is most important is to strengthen our own international diplomatic position, so that we are able to always discuss from a position of strength.
JOURNALIST: To what extent might Türkiye’s enhanced role in developments in the broader region, particularly in Syria, affect the Greek-Turkish dialogue?
G. GERAPETRITIS: In my opinion the dialogue is progressing based on a structured discussion. It is clear that there has never been a Prime Minister or a Minister of Foreign Affairs who has not engaged in discussions with Türkiye. However, what makes the current discussion different from discussions in the past is that Greece now maintains a particularly strong diplomatic position, because we hold very important positions on the international arena and also have strong strategic regional and international alliances. In addition, the dialogue with Türkiye is not being conducted under pressure. In the past we held talks while we had hundreds of Greek airspace violations daily. At the moment, the main characteristic of the Greek-Turkish dialogue is that we have initiated a well-organized, structured dialogue based on specific positive characteristics, whilst not ignoring fundamental differences that have existed for decades. We will reassess of course if there are negative repercussions. However, I feel that precisely because it is an organized dialogue, based on the 3 pillars of the Confidence Building Measures, the Positive Agenda and the Political Dialogue, it is not affected for the time being.
JOURNALIST: But now the following question arises: is this dialogue leading anywhere? Since we have heard the Prime Minister being pessimistic. Or are we discussing for the sake of discussing, only in the context of maintaining calm waters? Which is no small feat, but in any case, it does not move Greek-Turkish relations one step forward.
G. GERAPETRITIS: This mainly relates to the perception of time in politics. The Greek-Turkish dialogue will soon mark 16 months of structured talks, since September 2023, when it was launched by the two leaders. A lot has happened during this time. However, it is clear that not everything has been achieved and there hasn’t been progress when it comes to issues that carry historical weight for both our countries. Over this period, many agreements have been reached as part of the Positive Agenda, focusing on economy, trade, and tourism, along with cooperation agreements to combat human trafficking and migration. There have been important synergies at the military level in the framework of the Confidence Building Measures. Greek airspace violations have effectively stopped. We have achieved all of that and the most important is to maintain the current level of our relations. Moreover, it is evident that the old, hostile rhetoric has been constrained. But we haven’t talked about the major underlying issues that actually produce the ongoing tensions and crises. And I am obviously referring to the delimitation of the EEZ and the continental shelf.
JOURNALIST: The one and only dispute we recognize. Nevertheless, there is an evolving perception and a criticism on how the dialogue is being conducted. Many argue that it actually benefits Türkiye, which is normalizing relations with the European Union, while we appear to be wavering on the one and only dispute. Yesterday, Mr. Venizelos, for example, stressed that we might have avoided major incidents, but the list of unilateral Turkish claims has grown.
G. GERAPETRITIS: With all due respect, this is not the case. In my opinion, these are simple and objective issues that don’t need to be proven. I am not sure that Mr. Venizelos said exactly this, but I will explain the situation. The major issues, which create crises are known. The “blue homeland”, the demilitarization, the grey zones that Türkiye is putting forward. These issues date back decades, they did not occur now. As a matter of fact, Greece’s diplomatic power at the international level has increased and its defense has been bolstered. We all understand the significance of strengthening the Greek Navy and Air Force with respect to our negotiating capacity. Additionally, the stability of the Greek economy, which has been reinforced and consolidated, also contributes to our negotiating power. While the Turkish maximalist claims remain in force - and no one, even the most optimistic, could expect that within a few months Türkiye would renounce its claims on these issues - we have managed to at least keep under control the issues that create crises on a day-to-day basis.
And if you ask me whether I am optimistic, the answer is obvious. This is not the appropriate time and place to discuss this issue. First and foremost, we need to understand the concrete issue at stake, since it is extremely complex, dates back decades and involves technical details of international law, such as the delimitation. And I repeat that for Greece the one and only issue of discussion is the delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zone and of the continental shelf. Greece does not consider that there is any other dispute and will never place on the agenda issues of sovereignty, over which our country retains the inalienable right of absolute control. Therefore, to the extent that there is no convergence on the one and only dispute, there will be no discussion on these matters.
JOURNALIST: Minister, we have two questions. Your time is limited and we fully respect that. As you would expect, the first question refers to the recent intense criticism directed against the government from the two former Prime Ministers. In fact, Mr. Samaras referred to you personally in a particularly harsh manner, claiming that you should have left the government. This creates the impression that something is wrong with the Greek Government's handling of the situation. Despite repeated clarifications from you, the Prime Minister and other government officials regarding the sovereignty issues, these criticisms keep resurfacing. Will you make any comment regarding this comment?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Obviously, I will not comment on Mr. Samaras. Mr. Samaras has followed his own political path and he will be evaluated by the historian of the future. I will express my opinion which is very simple and concrete. I submit the specific results of the Greek-Turkish dialogue to the Parliament and the Greek people. According to these results, we have returned to a period of relative normality. We have expanded the footprint of Greek diplomacy more than ever before, without any fear. We do not enter the dialogue as the weaker party. We have too much power to do so. We implement a policy which, you know, is not mine personally. I implement a policy set out under the direction of the Prime Minister, by the Ministerial Council and the Government Council on National Security (KYSEA). Therefore, it is a collective government policy. In any case, allow me to say that I cannot respond to claims that are not based on specific objective facts. The question “what is the Minister talking about with his counterparts for so long?” cannot be answered at this level. Any abstract claim that there will be concessions cannot be answered at this level either. I will be clear. Everyone can have their own opinion on how things are progressing. However, we have a legitimate government that will implement its strategy through its collective bodies and it will ultimately be judged by the Greek people. We will proceed on this basis. And I can assure you that there has never been any concession. Τhe view that a hostile rhetoric and dogmatic inaction will somehow resolve problems that have been pending for fifty years is simply deceitful.
JOURNALIST: A final word on the KYSEA meeting where the issue of freezing the asylum applications of Syrian refugees will be discussed. The whole of Europe is concerned about this issue.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Of course, this issue is on the agenda. I repeat: this issue is affected by the situation in Syria, which is not stable and it is developing dynamically. Any decisions will be taken in coordination with our partners in the European Union and, of course, with the cooperation of the United Nations.
JOURNALIST: So, we are on standby.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Exactly.
JOURNALIST: Thank you very much, Minister.
G. GERAPETRITIS: It was a great honor.
JOURNALIST: For us, it was a great honor, too. Good morning, Mr. Minister.
December 13, 2024