Minister of Foreign Affairs, George Gerapetritis’ interview with international news network “WION” and the journalist Sidhant Sibal (New Delhi, 22.02.2024)

Minister of Foreign Affairs, George Gerapetritis’ interview with international news network “WION” (New Delhi, 22.02.2024)

“International Law is not only a precondition, but it is also a necessary tool to achieve peace in the world”

JOURNALIST: India and Greece share a close relationship. We have seen high- level visits including the ongoing visit of the Greek Prime Minister to India. With me is Greece's Foreign Minister. Sir, welcome to Wion. It is a pleasure speaking to you here in New Delhi this time. My first question to you is how you see India-Greece relationship. We have seen high-level engagement and the relationship becoming much more substantive now.

G. GERAPETRITIS: India and Greece share a lot of common values. We are two nations with great history. We have full adherence to International Law, to principles and rules. I think we do have a lot in common. And it was an outstanding opportunity that Prime Minister Modi was in Athens last August, when we upgraded our relationship to a strategic one. I think there is a huge upside when it comes to economic and cultural interaction between the two countries. India is a great nation; it is the fifth largest economy and, in the meantime, we expect to have a significant upgrade in our ties. It is important that, alongside with the Prime Minister and myself, we have here in India with us more than 100 businesspeople, who have the opportunity to interact with Indian entrepreneurs in various sectors including energy, construction, agriculture, tourism. So, we think there is an excellent opportunity for the two nations to develop.

JOURNALIST: So, essentially, now let us go into the details of this relationship. One has been the connectivity. We saw there is a great focus on how there can be a direct connectivity. And in that aspect, the India-Middle East-Europe Corridor is something that was announced by India during the G20 Summit. How do you see this connectivity project panning out?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Connectivity is the future of nations because the world should be a single unit. We need to work very closely and we consider that IMEC is not only an economic corridor, but it is also a corridor of peace and culture. Because exactly through that type of connectivity of products, materials, but also of cultural goods, I think, people could get together. And the people-to-people relationship is the most important nowadays. What we see is that this corridor essentially takes us back to history with the interconnection between India, the Arab states and Europe. And we really think that Greece should be a key player in this respect, not only because of its geographic location. As you know, Greece is the closest continental country to the Middle East. But also, Greece possesses very important ports. We do have the port of Piraeus, one of the largest ports in the Mediterranean Europe. And its utilization could save seven days of trip. We also possess other significant ports in the northern part of Greece. Greece also has a very strong commercial maritime fleet and this could be of an outstanding use, I think. Further, we have developed strong synergies concerning data transfer and we have also become an energy hub. As you know, Greece in the last few years has developed a large network of interconnectors concerning clean energy. Greece is a pioneer state when it comes to green transition. We are very concerned with the climate crisis and we have made some significant steps in order to employ green energy, especially renewable energy sources. And we are now in the process of developing connectivity also with Egypt and Central and Northern Europe. So, I think that the IMEC economic corridor, will be a strong tie of friendship and peace, but also of economic development, especially for India and Europe.

JOURNALIST: Do you think this IMEC Corridor is being impacted by the ongoing conflict in West Asia, the Israel Hamas conflict? Does it have the potential to delay the entire project?

G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, the situation in the Middle East is really appalling. The humanitarian catastrophe in the Middle East is outstanding and we need to take immediately, as international community, significant steps in order to stop the hostilities and allow for fully-fledged humanitarian aid to enter the Middle East and especially the Gaza region. On the other hand, when it comes to the connectivity project, there could be some delay because of the current situation. The truth is, however, that this is a visionary project. This is a long-standing project and we are fully of the opinion that this will develop, irrespective of the situation, which we hope will stop very shortly. Greece will do everything in its power to further develop the construction of the IMΕC Corridor. And we had very meaningful and constructive discussions with the Indian government while being here in New Delhi. Furthermore, we laid down the next steps for the IMΕC project, as well as all other economic and cultural relations that we need to develop in the near future.

JOURNALIST: So, what are the next steps? Has any working group meeting, been planned? Could you give us specific details regarding that?

G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, we are going to be in very close relationship and interaction with the Indian government on all levels. We have concluded a number of agreements that we need to follow up and we have established a multi-layer approach when it comes to the rapprochement between the two governments. On the other hand, we consider and we share this opinion with the Indian government that we need to develop further the multilateral cooperation in the connectivity project. This is why we think that we should also get in touch with the Arabic states, with the United Arab Emirates, and with Saudi Arabia, in order to have a holistic view concerning the IMEC project. We think that their own roadmaps should be very strict, with specific milestones and specific deliverables.

JOURNALIST: So, you mentioned the Piraeus port. Is there any kind of conversation taking place between the two sides over that specific port?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Greece wants to be the doorstep, the gateway of India to Europe, and I think Piraeus should be a key factor in this respect. It is very significant that the port of Piraeus is a free port. There is a huge volume of goods going through Piraeus, and that is essentially owed to India. We made some broad discussions, concerning the interaction with Greek ports. As you know, India is already present in Greece with some significant projects. For example, we have an emblematic construction of the new airport of Castelli in Crete-the largest Greek island-, which is essentially run by an Indian company in conjunction with a Greek construction enterprise. So, we consider that Piraeus offers huge investment opportunities for India, and we have laid this before the Indian government.

JOURNALIST: So, moving from connectivity to the larger geopolitics. How do you see India's role when it comes to multilateralism? What is your position when it comes to India's bid for a reformed United Nations Security Council and for a non-permanent seat as well, which India is going to be biding? In fact, India has announced it for later this decade.

G. GERAPETRITIS: That requires a huge discussion, because India is a large country, but also a very significant one. The truth is that India, irrespective of its size, has specific characteristics, which are particularly important not only for the region, but also for the globe. First of all, India is the largest democracy in the universe, and we praise this very much, as we have been the first country to introduce democracy at ancient times. So, we think that democratic values should be embedded in the international arena. And I think India is a particularly important factor in this respect. Furthermore, I think that India has a leading role in many respects in the international arena. First of all, India connects the South and North, the West and East, and could be indeed the focal point when it comes to international debate over the future of the global governance, especially with respect to the leading role of India in the Global South and in the G20. We think that India presents a model of economy which is very important in the sense that it produces wealth and prosperity for people. So, we think that India should indeed play a more prominent role in the international scenery, especially when it comes to the reform of the United Nations Security Council.

We think that India should indeed become a more important and all-embracing actor. The United Nations, essentially established almost 80 years ago, are still operating on the basis of older times. We need to actually synchronize the United Nations with contemporary times. And I think the geopolitical role of India entails that it has a more active role. Obviously, we are going to embrace and support the candidacy of India when it comes to the non-permanent seat for the Security Council. But we think that India should be among the states that have a standing role within the United Nations, especially in its capacity as a leading nation of the Global South.

Now, when it comes to the Olympic Games, you know the first Olympic Games began in Greece. We very much cherish India's participation. And I think that it is important that Prime Minister Modi has announced that India will be a candidate country for hosting the Olympic Games. I think that this could be a huge impetus for India, not only to present the new image of India towards the world, but also to present the new model of governance, the new model of economy and the new power that emerges out of India. The Olympic Games is a global event. And I think we should all support India's bid for the Olympic Games. It would be good for India, but good for the world, as well.

JOURNALIST: That is great to hear. My next question is on the security and the military dimension. What kind of engagement do we expect in that aspect? We have seen the Indian participation in military exercises in your country. We have seen the chief speaking as well, the military chiefs also speaking. So, what is expected in terms of the security cooperation between these two countries?

G. GERAPETRITIS: As you know, we had some significant joint military exercises. I think this is a serious upgrade in our military cooperation. I think we have a lot of things to exchange. As you know, Greece has an important maritime and air fleet, as well as very skilled military people. It is important to interact, exchange know-how, have joint exercises. We work for peace. Both nations, India and Greece, are nations supporting peace and stability in their regions and in the globe. We also signed an MoU here. It was signed among the Security Advisors. And I think it is important to upgrade this relationship. Especially because at contemporary times we encounter some huge challenges concerning security. And I think that it is about time to start discussing the global security architecture. The two wars in our broader region, the Middle East war and the Russian aggression against Ukraine which produced the war there, are, I think, very strong signals that we need to revisit the idea of international security architecture. We have encountered significant difficulties in the decision-making process, both on the level of the European Union, as well as that of the United Nations. We should start thinking more productively, more meaningfully, when it comes to security concerns. And we need to start thinking of global governance as an effective means to protect peace, prosperity and stability.

JOURNALIST: Sir, moving to the people-to-people relationship, we saw that the mobility pact is constantly under discussion. When can this pact be concluded?

G. GERAPETRITIS: This is a very important agreement and we have discussed extensively its conclusion with Dr. Jaishankar. We have sent our notes and the draft text. And we expect that this will be signed and ratified in the very near future, by all means within 2024. I particularly place emphasis on the fact that this agreement refers both to skilled and unskilled workers. As you probably know, in Greece now, we have a tremendous economic growth. The unemployment is going down and we urgently also need labour force. So, what we are trying to do is conclude agreements in order to allow for legal pathways for those who come to Greece. We especially need workers in the fields of construction, tourism, leisure and agriculture. And I think this is a prototype and model agreement in order, on the one hand, to allow for the mobility of working forces and, on the other hand, to mitigate illegal migration, which is a true problem in the Mediterranean. So, we expect to have this agreement concluded in the very near future.

JOURNALIST: Sir, Greece has one of the largest stakeholdership when it comes to global maritime presence. And undoubtedly there are impacts when it comes to the Red Sea crisis. How do you see the Red Sea crisis and its impact globally in terms of the maritime sphere?

G. GERAPETRITIS: We are very concerned. The situation in the Red Sea has a spillover effect, not only because it prohibits free trade and it poses a threat to the maritime security, but also because it exercises strong influence upon the neighbouring countries. We know that almost 35% of the commercial movement through the Suez Canal has gone down. So, Egypt is strongly influenced by this situation. What we really need to do is to have a global operation in order to protect maritime security. Indeed, there are in place two missions now in the Red Sea. One led by the United States, with a number of states included, and another run by the European Union. Greece took the initiative to provide the headquarters for the latter operation and we are participating with a frigate. We think it is important not only for maritime security and for the safety of all the people working in the maritime sector, but also because global security requires so. It is important to have a single voice. And I think in this respect, strong states such as India -a very large nation-, as well as Greece -a strong maritime nation-, should cooperate.

JOURNALIST: UNCLOS, the UN Law of the Sea, is something that we all are worried about. It is being violated, whether it is in the Mediterranean or whether it is in the Indo-Pacific. What is your stance on that?

G. GERAPETRITIS: We had very productive meetings with Indo-Pacific nations a couple of weeks ago when I was in Brussels for the EU-Indo-Pacific Summit. I took the initiative to promote the relationship between our two regions and I had multilateral and bilateral meetings with representatives of many Indo-Pacific states. I realized that we do share a huge concern about the implementation of UNCLOS, of the International Law of the Sea. We do have same challenges, but I think we do have a common belief that it is only within the United Nations international scenery and especially of UNCLOS that we can live in peace and prosperity. Although there are many challenges when it comes to the implementation of the Law of the Sea and especially issues of delineation of the continental shelf and the exclusive economic zone, what we really think is that all states should be actively involved in the preservation and further advancement of UNCLOS. And we are very optimistic that in the next few years the Law of the Sea will become a commonplace. After all, it is International Law. There is also International Customary Law, essentially binding not only the signatories, but all nations of the world. International Law is not only a precondition, but it is also a necessary tool to achieve peace in the world.

JOURNALIST: Well, on that note, thank you so much, Sir. It was pleasure speaking to you here in New Delhi.

G. GERAPETRITIS: It was an outstanding privilege. Thank you so much.

February 23, 2024