Minister of Foreign Affairs George Gerapetritis’ interview with “Parapolitika 90,1” radio station and journalists Christina Korai and Dimitris Takis (04.03.2024)

Minister of Foreign Affairs George Gerapetritis’ interview with “Parapolitika 90,1” radio station and journalists Christina Korai and Dimitris Takis (04.03.2024)JOURNALIST: I would like to begin with an issue that arose a little while ago, and it concerns Ms. Anna-Michelle Asimakopoulou. We had her on the radio earlier. She informed us that the most recent data she obtained from the Ministry of Interior were from 2019, when she was a candidate for the European Parliament. She has not yet been declared a candidate and thus she cannot obtain data, even if she wanted to. Mr. Katrinis stated that he will bring the subject before Parliament due to its seriousness. It also has to do with the data held by the Ministry of Interior concerning Greeks living abroad who have expressed their intention to vote. Two issues are raised. One is the issue of leaking personal data of Greeks living abroad who have indicated the intention to vote and submitted their application from abroad to exercise their right via postal voting. Of course, there is the question of whether postal voting has flaws. What is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying?

G. GERAPETRITIS: First, there is no data leaking. The existing legislation is extremely strict and has been rigorously implemented. According to our information, the Ministry of Interior has not provided any list. It could not provide a relevant list, because this electronic list is active and regularly updated. No list has been provided to candidates.

Second, what the law stipulates regarding the lists is strictly observed, just like in the past. Allow me to say that there is an element of hypocrisy in all of this, given that we all receive hundreds of list messages. In the last election, if you allow me, Ms. Korai, Mr. Takis, we received messages from all the candidates. I don't know if that is good or bad. You know, privacy is a serious stake in the modern digital age. On the other hand, there is open information, open data, and anyone can obtain anything.

Third, to conclude, there is absolutely no flaw in the integrity of postal voting. The exact opposite is true. As would be the case in the general electoral rolls, where there is a list of all those registered per polling station, there is the electoral list of those who will vote by postal vote.

JOURNALIST: Minister, you are telling us this based on information you obtained from the Ministry of Interior, correct?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Right. The procedure regarding postal voting will be strictly followed. It is strictly implemented. All our diplomatic missions abroad have been given instructions.

JOURNALIST: You participated in a teleconference along with Ms. Kerameus and the personnel of the Consulates and Embassies.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Last week, we hosted an important meeting with the Minister of Interior here at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. During this meeting, we briefed all diplomatic missions abroad on the process of registering on the electoral rolls and on facilitating the process.

Postal voting is a significant democratic achievement. Everyone must recognize this. It completes the universality of the voting process and enhances the significance of our democracy. It would be prudent, therefore, to support it.

JOURNALIST: So far, more Greek residents than Greeks living abroad have declared that they will exercise their right by postal voting.

G. GERAPETRITIS:  Taking into consideration that the information process has not yet commenced, this is entirely reasonable. Therefore, there will be a series of information events. We will have briefing events around the world, as well as the actual presence of the Ministers, including the Minister of Interior, the Deputy Minister of Interior, and the competent Deputy Foreign Minister, Mr. Kotsiras, to ensure a thorough briefing. I think that there will be significant mobilization. We all understand, of course, that these are elections for the European Parliament, where interest is somewhat limited compared to national elections. But I am absolutely optimistic that we will have a very large turnout. I think it is an important vindication of the cross-party effort that has been made to finally have postal voting in Greece as well.

JOURNALIST: Minister, you are the Minister of Foreign Affairs, but the issue of the day is also the national tragedy in Tempi. There is also a movement to collect signatures for a preliminary inquiry into this major issue. Fifty-seven people have died. Many scenarios are being discussed as to how much was filled with rubble and who gave the order. A crash site where many could not even get the ashes of their children to bury them. We want your answer, given that you were also in charge of the project to restart the railway, the Athens-Thessaloniki line, in the previous government of the New Democracy.

G. GERAPETRITIS: There are two levels to this, Ms. Korai, and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to comment on this issue. There is the matter of investigating the causes and responsibilities for the Tempi tragic accident, and there is also the matter of the safe resumption and upgrade of the railway infrastructure. At the first level of investigating responsibilities, I believe it is absolutely clear and understandable to everyone that we have an unspeakable tragedy. One can only imagine, but it is hard to identify with the pain of people who lost their loved ones, relatives and friends. From there on, it is important to have a complete and substantive investigation. And you will allow me to say that a complete and substantive investigation is being conducted, and has been partly accomplished, at multiple levels, four levels to be precise. Currently, we have a judicial investigation, which is progressing swiftly by Greek standards. We have an administrative investigation, which was carried out by the established Committee, whose impartiality – and I think we all agree on that- is not in question. We might disagree on some points, but I think it was an impartial judgment, even with the problems which, in my opinion, have arisen.

On a third level, we have a parliamentary process, which is unfolding with the Investigative Committee, and you will allow me to say that there is also a fourth level, which has not been adequately highlighted, which is the European intervention on this issue. I heard and I can understand the suffering of the people, but it is good not to create the impression that there was an attempt…

JOURNALIST: of a cover-up…

G. GERAPETRITIS: …to prevent an investigation by the European Commission. The exact opposite is true and I say this with respect to those who raise it. I myself, Ms. Korai, traveled to Brussels. I met with the competent Commissioner and requested an investigation by the European Union Agency for Railways. I initiated the process. We realize, of course, and the responsible Commissioner also raised this, that at the level of the European Commission such an investigation lasts from 12 to 18 months for reasons of procedures, but mainly for reasons of completeness of the investigation. It has already been initiated and from what I understand, it will soon be completed. It is a multidimensional investigation that is being conducted, and I cannot understand how it is possible for anyone to blame for a cover-up, when at all these levels there has been a thorough investigation which is being implemented.

JOURNALIST: Allow me to ask you a question, Minister, which is raised by both Ms. Karystianou and many others. They say that the European Prosecutor has sent a case to the Parliament regarding the non-implementation of contract 717, which assigns criminal responsibilities to Mr. Karamanlis and Mr. Spirtzis. Did you refuse to initiate a preliminary inquiry into this?

JOURNALIST: Could this have been a mistake after all? Many say that the non-implementation of Contract 717 is directly related to the Tempi tragedy and insist that criminal responsibilities must be assigned, or at least that the specific individuals should be brought to justice to decide on the matter. What do you say?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Allow me to tell you the following based on my experience at the Ministry of Infrastructure and Transportation. Concerning the extensions, first, all the extensions that were granted were approved by the European Commission. There was not a single arbitrary extension. Therefore, when we come to criticize the extensions, which I repeat were across the board of all governments...

JOURNALIST: The Prosecutor...

G. GERAPETRITIS: I reiterate, because I know from my own presence...

JOURNALIST: Didn't the European Prosecutor know this?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There was not a single extension that was not given with the approval of the European Commission. Second issue: we realize indeed that there were significant delays. These significant delays are connected with many reasons. It is not a Greek phenomenon. Especially in major post-war railway infrastructure projects throughout Europe, unfortunately, there were significant delays.

JOURNALIST: Minister, let us turn to foreign policy issues.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Yes, but allow me to conclude since you asked me.

JOURNALIST: We are dwelling a lot on the process.

G. GERAPETRITIS: No, it is not about the process, Ms. Korai.

JOURNALIST: Are there or are there not criminal responsibilities?

G. GERAPETRITIS: You understand that I am not a judge to assign responsibilities. However, what I can tell you are the facts, and the facts are as follows. No extension was granted without the Commission's approval. No country completed these projects in a timely manner. And let us also say this: we should realize that when we speak of assigning criminal responsibilities for the delay of a project, we must also consider the causality. I hear, you know, if the project had been completed, the tragedy would not have occurred. With all due respect, allow me to say that no one can know this and that at the end of the day, no matter how upgraded a system you have, there will always be a human who will operate the levers. We cannot change this. The human factor always exists. And to tell you something else, with initiatives that were taken by the government at a very fast pace, there has been a significant upgrade of the network. Unfortunately, after the Daniel disaster, there was a downgrade in a part of the central track. Coordinated efforts are being made so that we can have a railway that is absolutely safe.

JOURNALIST: Will a parent feel safe to allow their child board a train to travel from Athens to Thessaloniki or vice versa?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Of course, they will. Let me tell you that; we all have children and we all realize how tragic this issue is and under what conditions it occurred. Unfortunately, all transportations involve an element of risk.

JOURNALIST: Minister, allow me to ask a question on foreign policy issues.

JOURNALIST: During the Kathimerini conference, Mr. Samaras, the former Prime Minister, referred to a proposal also made by Ms. Bakoyannis earlier, stating that a consensus among the three parties is required to proceed with an agreement with Türkiye on Greek-Turkish issues. He claimed that such consensus “reeks of compromise to me, and I will stand against such a compromise.” Are you preparing to make a compromise with Türkiye, and do you expect to find the former Prime Minister against you?

G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, let me point out that consensus is a good thing, not a bad thing. I don’t understand what the former president meant when he referred to this...

JOURNALIST: He suggests that asking for consensus implies that you want to go beyond what you promised. So, you are asking for a compromise.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Look, it is simple. When addressing major issues that affect not just the present generation but also future generations, you should have as much consultation on this issue as possible and as much consensus as possible. It is obvious that at the end of the day, the accountability of actions ultimately rests with the responsible government, neither with the opposition, nor the society. It is the government that has the responsibility. On the other hand, at least I consider it my duty, when it comes to major decisions that concern the entire Greek people and future generations, to turn to the other parliamentary parties, to listen to their views, and as much as possible, to be able to incorporate them, if it is perceived to be the right thing to do. It is the Greek government and myself that are accountable to the Greek people. We will of course seek consensus on all major issues, not only on Türkiye but also on all the major national issues. From there on, we are accountable to the Greek people, who will judge us.

JOURNALIST: You didn't tell us though: will you make a compromise with Türkiye?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There are no compromises. There are discussions and consultations, so that we can find the points at which we converge. It goes without saying and I have said it repeatedly that there is no discussion on issues of sovereignty, nor will there be. I will never discuss issues of sovereignty. On the other hand, I want to emphasize something important. There are only two choices. Either we will try to live in peace and security, trying not to escalate tensions into crises, or we will be ready for armed conflict.

JOURNALIST: However, Türkiye is not doing so, as the Athens Declaration seems to have been left in the past; it has returned to its aggressive rhetoric.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Ms. Korai, do you think we are currently at the level of 2015 or 2021 or 2022? The answer is very simple. Right now, indeed, there are opposing positions. After all, the Athens Declaration acknowledged this. We were the ones who stated that we would not deviate from our fundamental positions. But what is the objective? While maintaining our fundamental positions, first, to be able to discuss with sobriety, and second, not to always have our hand on the trigger or, if required, to deploy our fleet and airplanes. Do we want this kind of discussion? And, you know, we all have a duty; we have a duty towards society and future generations. For me, the easiest thing would be to go out and also have a very aggressive rhetoric against Türkiye. Perhaps this would make me more popular. However, I am not concerned with being popular, but only with being beneficial for my homeland.

JOURNALIST: Is the Prime Minister's trip to Ankara proceeding? Do we have a date, or will it be the end of April, beginning of May?

G. GERAPETRITIS: The Prime Minister's trip to Ankara will be, in all probability, in May.  This is because the three pillars of the dialogue, namely the political dialogue, the confidence-building measures, and the positive agenda, should first have progressed. We should then strive to combine all the conclusions. Ms. Korai, for me it is important not only to make agreements, or to try to de-escalate crises, but also to monitor the progress of these agreements, so that a beneficial result is achieved. Therefore, the right thing to do is to have tangible results, which should come for approval by the two countries' leaders.

JOURNALIST: Thank you, Minister. Have a good morning.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Thank you very much.

March 4, 2024