JOURNALIST: Thank you, Minister, Mr. Gerapetritis, for the honor of joining us. We are extremely honored to have you with us here on Status FM, Mr. Gerapetritis, Professor, Minister - I'm not sure which title is most significant for those of you involved in politics.
G. GERAPETRITIS: I am a Minister for now, but a professor for life. Therefore, I always prefer my academic title, under which I believe I serve my nation not merely as a politician but mainly as a citizen.
JOURNALIST: However, you are facing intense criticism, Mr. Gerapetritis. It is believed that you spearhead an effort to - how shall I put it - smooth over differences with Türkiye, possibly involving a quid pro quo. As I told you earlier, you made a statement about the incident at Kasos. I don’t know if you think the explanations provided were sufficient for what happened there. It was interpreted that you essentially said: for fear of getting involved in an incident and losing, we, so to speak, "suffered a defeat."
G. GERAPETRITIS: What? When did I say that?
JOURNALIST: That’s what was implied.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Look, those determined to cast a person or a policy in a negative light will do so, regardless of the facts. As regards the Kasos issue, I want to reiterate and make this absolutely clear: I have repeatedly stated in Parliament, and I will say it again now.
The facts cannot be disputed. And the facts are as follows. There is a program of common interest to the European Union, hence there is European interest in this electric interconnection program between Greece, Cyprus, and ultimately Israel. In this context, a site survey is being conducted by a research vessel within territorial waters - Greek and Cypriot - and in international waters, within the Greek EEZ, where the Turks raise claims. It is in these international waters, that the vessel conducted a site survey a month ago. What occurred was that Türkiye dispatched warships nearby because it asserts rights, despite the Turkish-Libyan memorandum - which serves as the legal foundation for these claims - being considered null and void under International Law. However, Türkiye continues to press these claims based on its own interpretation. At that moment, we found ourselves within the framework of the site survey for laying the cable.
The tension caused did not create a crisis. After 24 hours, the Turkish ships withdrew. No permission was requested from the Greek side. There was absolutely no acceptance of any Turkish rights in the area. And, Mr. Venieris, let me emphasize once again. The research was completed 100% according to plan.
JOURNALIST: I see, that's clear.
G. GERAPETRITIS: If you believe that Greece, without making any concessions, without causing a crisis, and without any deviation from the research program, suffered losses from this, then, I am sorry, but I cannot provide an answer to that.
JOURNALIST: Alright, alright. I just conveyed to you a sentiment that has been generated. Beyond that, everyone can, of course, keep themselves informed.
G. GERAPETRITIS: There is a climate, Mr. Venieris, a climate of intolerance and hostility. I understand it. Everyone has their own politics regarding these matters. There are those who believe that now is the time to take up arms and go out and fight to achieve whatever visions they may have.
I want to tell you this: Greece stands at a complex geopolitical crossroads. And with full awareness, I want to address the ease with which some people advocate for aggression, as they deem appropriate. I was asked the following question by SYRIZA: “Why didn't we respond on the ground at Kasos?” That is to say, SYRIZA and those who oppose this policy believe that we now should become involved in a military confrontation.
And I reiterate: do those who say this with such ease realize the consequences of all these actions? I never said - and no Foreign Minister or Prime Minister ever will - that we should make concessions on our sovereignty and sovereign rights. Never. We all act based on principles that uphold our national rights, and we will always do so.
On the other hand, we must understand that it is always preferable to engage in discussion rather than to be poised for conflict. Our national interests are not ultimately served by war cries or overly simplistic hostile rhetoric. Rather, they are served through a robust discourse and, primarily, Mr. Venieris, through strong diplomacy.
JOURNALIST: That’s clear.
G. GERAPETRITIS: When has Greece, Mr. Venieris, ever acquired greater diplomatic capital than it does today?
JOURNALIST: I was just about to turn to that. I was convinced of what you just said until the legal troubles of Menendez and the changes, even just at the level of discussions, regarding the armament programs of Greece and Türkiye. Now I am somewhat confused because I see that the definitive stance of "you won't get this, you won't do that, we won’t give anything to Türkiye" seems to have shifted after Menendez left, leading to a noticeable change in the climate. I would appreciate your interpretation on that.
G. GERAPETRITIS: You do well to ask. Let us consider where we were when the New Democracy party came into power compared to where we are today. Back in 2019, Türkiye was part of the F-35 program and had already secured upgrades for its F-16s, while Greece was not even in the F-35 program and had not secured any upgrades for its F-16s to Viper. That was the reality. Where are we today, Mr. Venieris? Greece has not only joined the F-35 program, enhancing the Greek air defense significantly, but has also upgraded and continues to upgrade the F-16s. In contrast, Türkiye does not participate in the F-35 program and has not secured the F-16s. Thus, the superiority of Greece is quite apparent at this moment. The real facts speak for themselves, Mr. Venieris. You suggest there might be a shift...
JOURNALIST: No, there is an open discussion.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Let me tell you the following. Greece primarily aims to strengthen its own defense. Unfortunately, the past decade of crisis severely compromised our national defense. For this reason, the Prime Minister has made it an absolute priority to reinforce our national defense. We have been addressing this systematically, focusing on equipment, personnel, and strategic forces. That is what we have been doing for the last five years, and I am confident that there is no Greek who does not see that. Today, Greece is in a much stronger position regarding its national defence.
On the other hand, we continually monitor Türkiye. This is reasonable given that it is our neighbor with whom we have historical differences. It would indeed be naive not to keep a close eye. As of now, there has been no upgrade in terms of defense equipment between the United States and Türkiye. We understand Türkiye's desire to rejoin. Let me reiterate: Türkiye was in the F-35 program, but it is not at the moment. Therefore, to ensure we all share a common understanding, Mr. Venieris...
JOURNALIST: Given that I have two very important questions to ask, and knowing your time is limited, I hope you don't mind if I press you for answers now, otherwise very gladly…
G. GERAPETRITIS: Indeed, I am due to meet with the Vice Chancellor. Currently, Greece is enjoying the greatest diplomatic power it has ever achieved. Mr. Venieris, our diplomatic strength is not solely attributed to the robustness of our Prime Minister, who is indeed exceptionally extroverted and prominent in Europe and globally. It is also determined by our country's solid economic standing and by its strong national defense.
JOURNALIST: Indeed. Tell me something else. The crisis in Ukraine has changed the dynamics diplomatically, impacting foreign policy and alliances. Our relationship with the Russians has been damaged. No one can dispute that. We've had a fallout with the Russians. Beyond the economic aspects and the impacts, there's also the matter of how this rupture in relations could cause further issues in the future. Part of the opposition accuse you of being too willing to serve the West, as if we, as a country, are doing exactly what the West wants in the face of the Russia-Ukraine conflict and are most eager to serve their interests. How do you respond?
G. GERAPETRITIS: With all due respect, I have never heard a more simplistic interpretation than this.
JOURNALIST: But it happens, and you know it.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Certainly, because what is simplistic is digestible, sounds good, and unfortunately, it appeases lower sentiments. So, let me tell you this: Greece holds no stance of reluctance, hesitation, or eager conciliation. Greece maintains a principled stance. We apply the same principles whether it's regarding Ukraine, the Middle East, Africa, or Europe. What is this stance? It is the absolute respect for and strict adherence to International Law. It would be a complete contradiction, you know, Mr. Venieris, to support International Law in the Middle East and to support something different in the case of Russia. The Russian aggression in Ukraine is a real event that violates International Law. It infringes upon Ukraine's territorial integrity. It constitutes an explicit act of revisionism. Do those, Mr. Venieris, who constantly say that we should be more balanced to ensure a channel with Russia, realize what Greece's position would be if similar revisionism appeared in our own neighbourhood?
JOURNALIST: In Cyprus, for instance.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Even in Greece itself. Therefore, regarding how easily they say these things, they must be careful. I want to mention something important, Mr. Venieris. Precisely because of this policy of principles, because of this policy that respects and supports International Law, Greece has now become a reliable partner. When our critics say we are taken for granted or we are willingly compliant, if what they really mean is that we operate based on principles, then excuse me, but I fully accept all of that. Because Greece is a country that must be based on principles. Let us consider our stance towards the Middle East. We took a principled stance. Right now, thanks to this principled position, we converse with both Israel and the Arab world as well as with the West. Thanks to this, we have avoided problems that other countries face. We have managed to have a strong voice, and above all, Mr. Venieris, we have managed to earn everyone's respect.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Gerapetritis, as a Minister, how do you view the upcoming U.S. elections? I won’t ask you to choose between Trump and Kamala Harris - that would be quite unreasonable - but do you think the choice of candidate - though the Americans have their own concerns and probably aren't overly concerned with ours - would differently affect our relations with the United States? I don’t need you to tell me which scenario would be better for our country if you prefer not to answer. It would be improper for me to request a Minister respond to such a query. But do you believe there are qualitative characteristics that could impact Greece depending on how American voters decide?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I will give you a prudent answer. Although you realize that your question touches on very sensitive issues, which must be handled with confidentiality, I will be very clear. Greek-US relations transcend individuals and have become so strong that no change in government could disturb these ties. Why? Because they are based not only on mutual interest but primarily on a common understanding of international affairs and a fundamental respect for International Law. This common ground ensures that countries that share these principles should collaborate.
This is our fundamental stance, and for this reason, I am honest with you. I do not foresee any disruption in the event of a change in U.S. leadership, in the U.S. Presidency. I should also point out that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has mechanisms in place to ensure the continuity of Greek-US relations. Of course, let me add that changes in U.S. leadership could potentially reshape the global security architecture. While Greek-U.S. relations might not be affected, the American stance on other critical global issues might change.
JOURNALIST: Like Russia…
G. GERAPETRITIS: On Russia and the Middle East, on major and pressing issues, so…
JOURNALIST: So, we are not affected by this, you're saying.
G. GERAPETRITIS: So, we recognize that a change is possible. I am not certain there will be a fundamental shift in American diplomacy, which always has its principal positions, but there might be some minor changes. As the United States obviously represents a pillar of stability and primarily a pillar of strength in the global framework, these changes could potentially disrupt the current situation, possibly affecting all countries, including Greece. I do not rule out some consequences from a change in stance.
However, what I want to say is crucial, Mr. Venieris. First, regarding Greek-U.S. relations, we are not worried. On the contrary, the dynamics are such that only improvement is expected in the near future. Secondly, regarding global balance, I believe it is important to have stable global governance. Indeed, changes by major powers can cause some disturbances. And for this reason, Mr. Venieris, it becomes even more important for Greece, a country that is a pillar of stability in the Eastern Mediterranean, in Europe, and globally, to continue its principled stance, to avoid transactional politics, and to proceed based on principles that serve our national interests.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Gerapetritis, thank you very much.
G. GERAPETRITIS: It was indeed my great honour.
JOURNALIST: Likewise. I wish you all the best.
September 7, 2024