Minister of Foreign Affairs George Gerapetritis’ interview with “talk radio 98.9” radio station and journalist Babis Papadimitriou (20.05.2024)

Minister of Foreign Affairs George Gerapetritis’ interview with “talk radio 98.9” radio station and journalist Babis Papadimitriou (20.05.2024)JOURNALIST:  We will discuss today with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, George Gerapetritis. Good day, Minister.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Good morning Mr. Papadimitriou. May we have a nice week ahead. Thank you for your honorable invitation.

JOURNALIST: Thank you for accepting. First of all, I would like your comment on the consequences of the accident involving Iran's President and his death. Oil prices have risen somewhat, as was expected.  The markets are unsure of how to react to such issues, especially given Iran's particular regime. How might this affect a region already in turmoil?

G. GERAPETRITIS: We realize that President Raisi was clearly the second most important person in Iran following the Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei. It is apparent that there would be some turmoil during the transition period. Within 50 days, citizens will need to vote for the next President. Iran has actually a very closed and strict system, therefore, my sense is that there will be no serious turmoil. The reaction of the markets, particularly the oil markets, is evident. However, I believe there will be a normalization. The Foreign Minister played a significant role in Iran's overall grid of responsibilities. We maintained regular contact as well.

Allow me to use your radio frequency to express my condolences to the Iranian people and government. However, my feeling is that, despite some minor transitional fluctuations, there will be no change in either the foreign policy or regional and international reactions towards Iran.

JOURNALIST: Minister, could you please explain to me and our listeners what exactly we aim to achieve by going to Ankara or with Türkiye in general? We have said this many time on this frequency, and I believe there is consensus on this issue, with the exception of a few “extreme voices”.

G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, Mr. Papadimitriou, I would like to point out that, in my opinion and under the Prime Minister's instructions, Greek foreign policy, should be based on developing good neighbourly relations and alliances that create conditions of calm and prosperity for our country. Allow me to say that this is particularly crucial in extremely turbulent times. I believe that no one should overlook the fact that the two wars in our region, as well as the widespread unrest in vulnerable regions of the world close to us, such as Africa and particularly Sub-Saharan Africa, create conditions that could disrupt Greece’s foreign policy, diplomacy, and international standing.

For this reason, we also work to build pillars of strength for our country. The are three pillars. There is the pillar of the economy, whereas you know better than I do, Greece is steadily advancing. There is the pillar of defense, which we are enhancing following a decade of significant recession in both equipment and personnel due to the major economic crisis. And of course, we are gradually building major alliances and strengthening our country's diplomatic capital regarding our foreign policy and Greek diplomacy. We are currently able to converse in terms of equality and, at times, power with all international actors, as well as with international organizations. For this reason, I believe it is an appropriate moment to be able to develop our good relationships.

You ask what our objective is in relation to Türkiye. Allow me to say the following. There is a minor objective:  to maintain a state of calm in our neighbourhood. Calm here means not having problems regarding violations, not having problems with migration flows. We have experienced both with great intensity in recent years. We also aim to create a permanent mechanism for defusing tensions. It is particularly significant, Mr. Papadimitriou - because differences exist and will continue to exist – to handle these differences in a way that do not lead to crises. Because crises may lead to extremely unfavourable outcomes for our country and our region. Therefore, decompression mechanisms. That is a minor aspect.

The major objective is to look ahead. This requires engaging in a sincere and profound dialogue. We all understand that we have very different starting points when it comes to our fundamental positions on major issues.

JOURNALIST: Allow me to ask you a question.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Please, go ahead.

JOURNALIST: "We believe that any disagreements with our neighbors should be resolved without resorting to aggression." There is an issue of concern to us, which we, on our part, do not wish to resolve aggressively. We prefer to discuss it. It is Greece’s suggestion for the EEZ. There is an impression that this issue has not been and will never be on the table.

G. GERAPETRITIS: The answer is clear. We have chosen a roadmap based on specific, methodologically elaborated principles. I would like to emphasize that the departments of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the political leadership have conducted an exceptionally thorough and professional preparation. What is our logic? It is that we will pick up the thread of Greek-Turkish relations step by step, beginning with the least complex and progressing to the most challenging issues.

Therefore, the choice was initially to be able to reduce the sources of tension. To this end, I believe great strides have been made in terms of migration, violations, calm in the Aegean, and even the rhetoric used by the parties.

The second step is to build on mutually beneficial measures. It is important to have measures that benefit both economies and bring the two peoples somewhat closer. This contributes significantly to mutual understanding, such as granting short-term visas to Turkish citizens visiting Greek islands.

The third and major step is, as you correctly said, to be able to address our major dispute, the sole dispute that can be referred to international jurisdiction, namely the delimitation of the continental shelf and the Exclusive Economic Zone. It is our ambition to tackle this issue. Because I want to be clear, Mr. Papadimitriou. Of course, we can prolong it and we are doing everything we can to maintain a peaceful neighborhood. However, the major issue remains and as long as it does, it is obvious that at any moment we could have a regression. We will have a truly peaceful neighborhood and long-term prosperity when we are able to address the major issue, which is the delimitation. We hope to be able to begin these discussions.

I estimate that during one of their upcoming meetings, the two leaders will authorize the Foreign Ministers to commence discussions on the issue of delimitation. It is an issue of complex legal characteristics. Greece, as you know, has the advantage of always relying on International Law to support its arguments. We will continue to do so. And I want to believe that now is a proper historical juncture to discuss this difficult issue with sobriety.

JOURNALIST: Thus, our aim is to foster a good discussion environment that we lacked until recently. In this environment, assuming it is confirmed in the remaining years of the current majority and Prime Minister Mitsotakis' tenure, we will have the opportunity to address this longstanding issue that has been pending for decades.

The question is, and it is a question for everyone - assuming this positive atmosphere in our relations continues - will you be able to discuss any issues that arise directly, rather than through the fighter aircrafts flying over the Aegean? In the time remaining until the next parliamentary elections, will you manage to address this major issue and delimitate the continental shelf and the Exclusive Economic Zone, as you so nicely put it?

G. GERAPETRITIS: I would like to be clear, Mr. Papadimitriou. We are actively working so that we can discuss the continental shelf and the Exclusive Economic Zone issues as well. We are actively working, in the sense that we always strive to create suitable conditions through mutual sincerity and understanding, constantly trying to reduce tensions and manage our disagreements. Additionally, we are actively working to handle these complex technical issues as well. There have been 64 rounds of exploratory talks in recent years regarding the delimitation issue, which failed. Why did they fail?

JOURNALIST: What exactly do these rounds explore, Minister?

G. GERAPETRITIS: They solely explore the issue we are discussing, namely the delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zone and the continental shelf. There have been numerous technical discussions over the last 20 years, which unfortunately have led nowhere. In my opinion, they failed because what was really missing was a broader environment of a more open and sincere relationship that could develop. A relationship that should be, allow me to say, deliberative. We should be able to discuss, to attempt to understand the positions of our interlocutor. Obviously, we would present and argue in favor of our own positions, but we should have a more deliberative approach.

Every time we discussed we unfortunately took a step back in our efforts to resolve our longstanding issue. Why? Because due to a lack of mutual understanding, each time we presented an argument, it diverged rather than converged with our positions. Our effort is to foster a spirit that will advance the discussion. Allow me to tell you, Mr. Papadimitriou, that for us and for me personally, foreign policy holds great value in creating conditions of prosperity for the future. It should not create tension and insecurity for the citizens. The main goal I have set for myself is to ensure that citizens feel secure and confident about their country's position in the international community, and in relation to its neighbors. I truly believe that steps have been taken to strengthen this sense of security among the citizens. Just consider the difference in the level of concern among the citizens about Greek-Turkish relations from a year ago to now.

Unfortunately, there are other major issues, as you are well aware, like the economy and the cost of living that rightly concern the citizens. However, at this moment, it seems that Greek citizens want the discussion with Türkiye, as proven by public opinion polls. I believe we have reached a level where, precisely because our country's position has significantly strengthened in the international arena, they can feel secure about our country's position. And I believe this is a significant achievement.

JOURNALIST: Mr. Gerapetritis, is appeasement a method of dialogue with Türkiye?

G. GERAPETRITIS: The answer is clear. There is absolutely no appeasement. I believe such pointless verbalism is often used to characterize a relationship of necessity because when two neighbors coexist inevitably due to geography, it is a condition of necessity, not necessarily a choice. There is no appeasement whatsoever. What we have instead is consultation. We discuss in tones of decency and understanding, recognizing that there are fundamental positions where, by definition, convergence cannot occur. This is because these positions originate from different historical starting points and are significantly divergent.

On the other hand, we try to identify points where convergence is possible, build upon them, and examine the positions we articulate. This allows us to establish a framework of understanding that ensures we avoid reaching a point where tensions and differences could escalate into crises or even war. We are working very hard with a focus on the future, ensuring it is a peaceful one.

JOURNALIST: One final question, Minister. Will we abolish the Prespa Agreement?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There is no such issue at the moment. It is very clear that there is an issue that has arisen following the elections in North Macedonia. We, of course, respect the electoral result in North Macedonia. We always emphasize that, despite any ideological or political differences the new political leadership may have towards the Prespa Agreement, it remains an international treaty that has been ratified and cannot be modified or amended unilaterally by any party. It constitutes the cornerstone upon which the international relations of North Macedonia were built. Naturally, the European Union evaluates the issues of the Prespa Agreement and its full and consistent implementation. And for this reason, I believe the political leadership of North Macedonia will assess these issues and comply with the requirements of the Prespa Agreement.

I should note that the Greek side monitors the issue of the bona fide implementation of the Prespa Agreement. Mr. Papadimitriou, you are well aware that the current governmental majority, formerly in opposition, had timely pointed out the grey areas of the Agreement. There were serious technical issues, which, unfortunately, became apparent over time. I personally highlighted the legal problems soon after the Agreement was made public, which have the potential to create conditions for future conflict.

For this reason, I am particularly annoyed by claims that I supposedly participated in drafting the Prespa Agreement. Obviously, this is not true. Not in the slightest. I was not aware of even a single line from the Agreement before it became public. But to tell you the truth, such a situation would not have occurred because, even if I had been called upon, there was no way I would have included terms that could create such issues. Today, it is essential that we adhere to the agreed-upon terms, not necessarily because we agree with them, but because it is a treaty for the continuity and stability, however it was created. In any case, we cannot create a unilateral framework upon which political careers are built.

JOURNALIST: Thank you very much.

May 20, 2024