JOURNALIST: Minister, you visited St Petersburg as one of the participants in the St Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF). What are your impressions of the city?
G. KATROUGALOS: I first visited St Petersburg in 1986, when it was called Leningrad. It is one of my favourite cities and as beautiful as always. The reconstruction of the historic centre underlines the imperial and cultural appearance of the northern capital city.
JOURNALIST: On the margins of the SPIEF, you met with Sergey Lavrov, the head of Russian diplomacy. What did you discuss and how would you assess the outcome of your meeting?
G. KATROUGALOS: Firstly, I would like to express my deep respect for Sergey Lavrov. This was the first meeting where we were able to have a direct exchange. During our discussion, we reached the conclusion that both sides wish to improve bilateral relations, which are already very good. Our conversation touched upon a broad range of topics, including the regional agenda: Greece, as everyone knows, is situated in the turbulent region of the Balkan peninsula. Both Greece and Russia wish for all conflict to be resolved through negotiations and in compliance with international law. This view was one of the key points of our conversation with Sergey Lavrov.
JOURNALIST: Concerning the situation in the Balkans: the situation in the region deteriorated recently, as the issue of the independence of Kosovo is once again on the rise. What are your views on these matters?
G. KATROUGALOS: The situation has indeed deteriorated. We must work to de-escalate tensions and resolve the conflict. As practice has shown, chronic differences can be resolved and our situation clearly attests to this fact. As you are aware, about a year ago, we reached an agreement with our neighbouring country, the Republic of North Macedonia, thus resolving a dispute that had lasted for decades. We succeeded in agreeing not just on the country's name, but also on certain other problems that had been dividing us throughout this period.
JOURNALIST: As regards Kosovo, does Athens still not recognise the independence of this Republic?
G. KATROUGALOS: We are one of the few EU countries that have not recognised its statehood, and it does not seem that our position will change in the near future.
JOURNALIST: In the context of relations between Russia and many western countries, contacts with Greece are near the point of being called friendly. What you do think the reason for that is?
G. KATROUGALOS: They are not “close” to friendly; they are friendly. Our citizens communicate well with each other and understand each other perfectly. I think Russians and Greeks are similar in many respects and share many mentalities. The same holds true at the inter-state level: our diplomatic relations are very close. Of course, the European Union is the political home of Greece, but we are endeavouring to serve as a link between Russia and the EU.
JOURNALIST: Are there no strains in relations between Moscow and Athens?
G. KATROUGALOS: If you're asking me whether there’s anything further to improve, the answer is definitely yes. These areas include bilateral trade. However, this is not a cause for problems.
JOURNALIST: Which trade sectors require the most attention?
G. KATROUGALOS: Mainly agriculture. Of course, one obstacle were the Russian countermeasures against EU countries. However, we are discussing these problems and it is-our desire to improve the situation. I believe there is ground for cooperation at all levels.
JOURNALIST: Tourism is also important for bilateral relations. What is your view of this sector?
G. KATROUGALOS: We are visited by a tremendous number of Russian tourists. Due to high demand, there were delays in the past regarding the issuance of visas, but the system is currently working much better. In general terms, several Russian entrepreneurs are interested in investing in Greece: by the end of 2018, they had invested approximately USD 663 million in our country, not just in tourism but also in energy, finance, telecommunications and real estate.
JOURNALIST: You mentioned the negative repercussions of the Russian countermeasures on the Greek economy...
G. KATROUGALOS: Yes, we believe such measures are not the best way to solve problems, and our position is known in Brussels. The sanctions have affected the country's economy, but, as I previously said, Greece and Russia wish to change the situation.
JOURNALIST: In recent years, at the Council of Europe, where Russia was made subject to sanctions in the last five years, requirements for the lifting of these restrictions emerged. In your view, how likely is the European Union to start veering towards abandoning such measures?
G. KATROUGALOS: As I said, we would like to become a bridge, so to speak, between Russia and the EU. In our opinion, there can be no talk of a security system in Europe without the participation of Russia. That is why Moscow must return to the architecture of this system.
JOURNALIST: Can work on waiving visas restart?
G. KATROUGALOS: We think this is an important issue, because the future waiver of visas will help improve relations between peoples.
JOURNALIST: You mentioned that Greece succeeded in resolving the conflict with North Macedonia. The road to NATO and the European Union is now open to this country. When you do believe Skopje will be able to become a full member of the EU?
G. KATROUGALOS: We support North Macedonia’s candidacy for EU membership, not just because it signed the Prespa Agreement with us, thus resolving an extended conflict, but also because its leadership is trying and actually implementing reforms that are necessary in order to acceded to the Union. It is too early to tell, but I hope that in June, after the results of the EU Councils, the starting date of negotiations for the accession of Skopje to the EU will be announced.
JOURNALIST: What about Turkey? In recent years, numerous unresolved issues and disputes have arisen between Turkey and Brussels.
G. KATROUGALOS: Greece is one of the few EU countries that still supports the accession of Turkey to the European Union. In my view, its accession would be beneficial for all sides. However, in order for this to occur, Ankara must respect international law and the rule of law, and work towards conforming with all of the EU’s requirements.
JOURNALIST: Which other countries could potentially become members of the EU?
G. KATROUGALOS: We support the accession prospects of all Balkan countries — that is, if they so desire. All candidates must prove that they comply with EU membership, that they respect the general rules.
JOURNALIST: Speaking of NATO, how does Greece perceive US calls to increase defence spending?
G. KATROUGALOS: It is not a particular concern, as we already spend more than we need to: 2.3% of the GDP.
JOURNALIST: Is this a problem for your budget?
G. KATROUGALOS: It is. This is why we would like the EU to be more active in this direction, becoming a powerful union that protects its members. If the EU establishes an independent defence policy in the future, this will enable us to reduce our defence spending.
JOURNALIST: Is it the case that it is hard for Greece to allocate such a large amount for the military sector?
G. KATROUGALOS: We must spend this kind of money because we live in a “rough neighbourhood”. If we lived in a more peaceful region, that money would be channelled towards other sectors. We recently emerged from the crisis and must therefore invest in a welfare state: schools, hospitals and many other types of infrastructure.
JOURNALIST: You are in favour of the creation of a so-called pan-European army, a subject on which the French President, Emmanuel Macron, recently spoke. Why is this?
G. KATROUGALOS: The European Union must acquire an independent voice on the international stage, in order to both become a global player and gain influence. We Greeks, on the outer edge of the EU, require defence of our borders. We are living in a new era: new, asymmetrical threats and new social challenges have emerged. For example, people are becoming intolerant of immigrants.
JOURNALIST: By the way, how are things in Greece as regards immigrants?
G. KATROUGALOS: Much better than in, say, 2015, when about a million people crossed our borders. However, even today, the issue has not been fully resolved. The European Union must develop a new immigration policy and change asylum rules. What we currently have creates a significant burden for countries located on the borders of the EU and particularly for Greece. Therefore, for reasons of solidarity and effectiveness, we must establish a new, common European migration policy.
JOURNALIST: Recently, Greece demanded approximately EUR 300 billion from Germany as reparations for World War I and World War II. Why is this issue once again on the agenda?
G. KATROUGALOS: These reparations have been an established Greek demand towards Germany. There are ethical, legal, historical and political reasons. Germany is our partner in the European Union, and we addressed Germany as a partner in order to commence negotiations. We raised the issue not to strain relations, but because we can discuss anything with them by dint of our amicable relations.
JOURNALIST: Have you received a response from the German side?
G. KATROUGALOS: So far, the response has been negative. However, we hope that this time we will be able to open a dialogue regarding this issue.
June 10, 2019