G. WESTERWELLE: So, ladies and gentlemen, dear Stavros, I am delighted to receive you here in Berlin, thank you so much that you could come to Germany and that we had not only the chance and the opportunity to discuss our issues, bilateral and European issues this morning, but that we can continue our dialogue and our conversation here in the guesthouse of the German Foreign Ministry, in the Villa Borsig.
My dear Stavros, a warm welcome to this meeting in Berlin. Already, this morning, we had an excellent discussion on the future of Europe, the needs and challenges we have to meet, the need for structural changes not only within the framework of the member states, but for Europe as a whole. Naturally, we are concerned with the situation in Europe, the situation in the eurozone, and I would like to stress here that we are happy about the fact that we are both in favor of a limited change in the treaties.
What we are seeking is not a restatement of Europe, but essentially to cover certain structural shortfalls so that we can carry out some changes of small scope in the Treaties and never return to this crisis situation. What we want is to further develop the Union into a Union of stability, and to achieve this we need sanctions and principles, if you will, so that we can take the appropriate measures to establish fiscal discipline and follow all the financial regulations.
But I would like to stress that I have great respect for the new Greek government’s readiness to implement all of these reforms. In particular, I respect the great burden being shouldered at this time by the Greek people, and I very much respect and appreciate the reform package that the new Greek government has undertaken to implement.
It is very important for there to be continuity in the reform process. This is how we lay the foundations for remedying the situation; that is, discipline in expenditures with an improvement in the competitiveness of member states, of Greece and the European Union as a whole, so that long-term competitiveness can be at the epicentre, if you will, of our common cooperation.
But apart from all that, I would like to stress that I truly respect all the efforts and achievements of the Greek people, everything that the new Government has put on the path to implementation. The Greek government can count on our help, provided it is willing to support these reforms and implement these procedures, and it can count on the assistance of the European Union.
I would like to underscore another issue that was naturally part of our discussion, against the backdrop of recent developments in Iran. I must say that the attack on the British Embassy in Iran – which essentially impacts the German school in Iran – is a very unpleasant case that we condemn in the clearest terms. It is an affront to international law. It is unacceptable and we condemn this affront to international law in the sharpest terms. We are at Great Britain’s side, supporting them in solidarity, as Europeans.
Iran has an obligation to secure and protect all foreign institution in its country, and this is why we convey our position to Iran in all clarity. I issued instructions to the Iranian embassy today, summoning their ambassador.
This is a very serious process. We are particularly concerned at the developments in Iran, and we cannot accept such attacks against diplomatic institutions. So, we very clearly state our criticism and displeasure.
I would like to thank you at this point and give the floor to Mr. Dimas. Thank you very much, Stavros, for being with us here this evening so that we can have the opportunity to share this evening together. You are among friends. You have the floor.
S. DIMAS: Thank you very much Guido, for what you said about our cooperation, for your welcome here. I would like to assure you that Greek-German ties will become even stronger, especially after working together out of this crisis and to assure you again that the Government is fully committed to the implementation of the decisions of the 26th of October, because the timely and effective implementation of these decisions is absolutely necessary, together with the cooperation from our European partners for facing the crisis, making our debt sustainable, regaining the international credibility of the country and laying the foundations for recovery and growth.
Let me say that we had a very useful and constructive meeting and discussion with Mr. Westerwelle, which began in the morning, at the Berlin Forum, and continued with the meeting we just had, and will continue now at the dinner he has been kind enough to host for us.
Naturally, we discussed the 26 October decisions. I briefed the Minister on the situation in Greece, the Greek government’s commitment to implementing the 26 October decisions and the need, in cooperation with our European partners, to confront the crisis.
We also discussed the institutional changes in the reforms that are being discussed right now and that will be the subject of discussion in Brussels in the coming days. We agreed on the need for limited change to the treaties.
What is important – in addition to the procedure for the changes – is the content, the changes, that need to be based on the principles of effectiveness, of cohesion, of solidarity, of institutional equality. We think that through these types of changes, with the deepening of the framework – the institutional framework of the eurozone – we will be able to handle the crisis. Immediate actions are also perhaps necessary to confront the crisis.
We also talked about the democratization taking place in northern Africa, the unacceptable situation in Syria, where the regime must stop killing people and respect the principles of human rights and the need for democracy and freedom.
We welcome the fact that the election process has begun in Egypt, and we believe that the path to democracy and freedom will benefit the Egyptian people and prosperity. We welcome this historic beginning of the democratic process of elections.
Mr. Minister, I would like once again to thank you for this excellent reception, for your great offer of cooperation so that the problems my country is facing can be resolved in an effective manner, because confronting the crisis in Greece means our contributing to the healthy eurozone that we all want.
Together with the institutional changes that are made, I believe that Greece will contribute in this way, and we are counting on continued cooperation with you. I thank you very much.
JOURNALIST: … the rescue package. How great is your concern, and how important is the new financial injection to Greece?
S. DIMAS: Ι heard only half of the question, but anyway. Of course we are very much concerned and of course we care very much about all the details being implemented in the right way. For example, right now, we have started to negotiate or to discuss the PSI, the Private Sector Involvement, and we hope that this will be successful. Of course we rely a lot on the package, which we hope will be sufficient. But the important thing is for all the measures and the programs in the multi-annual adjustment program to be implemented correctly, in time and – whenever we have certain technical problems – with the cooperation of the task force of the Commission and the cooperation of our European partners.
G. WESTERWELLE: We are dealing with a debt crisis that essentially led Europe into a crisis of confidence, and if we want to overcome this crisis of confidence we need to put an end, first of all, to the debt crisis, and we can’t achieve this by facilitating the creation of new debts, but by taking care that, with new discipline, the budgets of the member states are formulated based on this discipline.
That is why, in the short term, we are looking, on the one hand, to support Greece and the other colleagues in Europe – everyone who needs our support and solidarity. This is essentially in our own interest, because we are not, if you will, mainly supporting Greece. No, we are supporting and protecting – in addition to the solidarity, if you will – essentially our common currency.
It is clearly in our interest to support and protect our currency, raising a firewall so that we can try to ensure that this crisis doesn’t spread. On the other hand, supporting the individual member states, giving them the chance to exercise greater discipline, financial discipline, while also amending the European treaties in such a way as to enable us to overcome the structural problems, if you will, that presented themselves under the current conditions.
As for the results of the procedures that are underway, there is no point in getting ahead of ourselves. There is a lot of guessing going on right now in Europe, and profiteering, if you will – not just on the stock markets, but also publicly. This does not help towards building confidence, and I will not participate in anything like that.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Westerwelle, Pakistan isn’t going to participate in a meeting on atomic energy and weapons. What is your reaction to that?
G. WESTERWELLE: Look, if that was the whole issue – Pakistan refuses to participate – that would be regression, if you will. Naturally, we are in contact with the Pakistani government, because the success of the Afghanistan Meeting, the meeting on Afghanistan, is not important just for Afghanistan, but also for the whole region and all the countries in the neighbourhood.
Naturally, these talks are going to continue for Pakistan as well, but I would like to add something else – something that we shouldn’t forget: It was a terrible incident in which over 20 Pakistani soldiers lost their lives, and I expect all of the competent authorities, services, ISAF, NATO, to make sure to really clear this issue up.
We owe this to the victims, to the families of the victims. We have to put ourselves in their position: if something so tragic happened to us, if we had such a large number of victims in our own country or countries. And I would like you to bear this in mind when you weigh in on the decisions that are taken.
One final question.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Minister, a question for you. Berlin’s views on Greece were very critical until recently with regard to the midterm programme, etc., as well as regarding the adjustment. What makes you so optimistic that things will have another outcome now?
JOURNALIST: The German government is promoting a series of structural changes that go as far as sending a country to the European Court. We will see the exact phrasing of these changes in the coming days. Did you assure the German government today of the Greek government’s support for the structural changes being promoted?
G. WESTERWELLE: First of all, what we are talking about – amendment of the treaties – is still in the process of negotiations and deliberation.
We are talking to the Polish government, yesterday with France, today with the Greek government. In other words, this is not a proposal that Germany is making and expecting all of the proposals to get 100% approval.
We have presented some proposals. There are proposals from other European states. For example, a proposal from the Stability Commissioner, a proposal that came from the Netherlands, and we will consult on these, they will be the subject of consultations, joint consultations.
We really believe that the European Court should participate in cases where there is disagreement, but these are matters that we will discuss. This is a subject of discussion, just as is always the case, in the spirit of cooperation, and there are no foregone conclusions. These are issues that we will consult on together, because Europe is a partnership among equal partners. This is very important, and we stress this here.
In addition to all that, I would like to add that in our societies there have been a number of cases of uncalled-for comments in the media – in Greece, about Germany, and vice versa. We mustn’t confuse this with the general stance and views of the large majority of our peoples, both our peoples, and I want to stress here, so that Greece knows this – Greece knows this and we know it as well.
If some demonstrators paint a swastika on a banner, this has nothing to do with the meetings and relations we have between Greece and Germany. And you are aware of the German malapropisms in commenting on the situation in Greece. These have nothing to do with our view of Greece.
This happens in democracy. There is exaggeration, there are such tendencies, and they have nothing to do with the general German view of Greece and vice versa. We are not overall against or negative to Greece. In fact, we are of the view that Greece is a very important partner and part of Europe.
We were concerned when, a few days ago, with the completion of the package and the agreement on a package, the notion or idea of a referendum was expressed, creating the impression that everything agreed upon might not be if effect.
That really was a point of concern. That is why I am particularly please about and welcome the fact that my colleague here stressed both here and in other instances that implementation of the 26 October agreement is the Greek government’s agenda, and that is how we build confidence.
S. DIMAS: First of all, I would like to repeat what I said earlier about the institutional reforms. We see institutional reforms within the framework of the eurozone as being necessary, because if these institutions become more effective, it will result in the improved functioning of the eurozone and the maintaining of the eurozone.
There are, of course, certain principles that – along with these changes that make the eurozone more effective – need to be maintained: the principles of solidarity, social and economic cohesion, convergence, institutional equality. That is why it is important for us to look at all of these proposals.
But as to whether the treaties need to change, I think we should agree on this so that there can be legal certainty, because I must remind you – and I have experienced this as a Commissioner – that the Stability Pact, which doesn’t have the institutional authority it would have if it was part of the Treaty, was violated by many countries, Germany and France being among the first, and at that time the sanctions provided for were not imposed, and then other countries followed, of course, and since no sanctions had been imposed then, in the case of these two big countries, they were not imposed on other countries later on.
Discipline was broken from the outset. So, if the Stability Pact is part of the Lisbon Treaty it will have much stronger institutional authority, and as such it will be to the benefit of all the countries, but on the condition of the principles that I set out earlier, and we’ll see what the content of the proposals is. I have read various versions.
Now I would like to say a few words about the relations between our two countries. I believe that the Greek and German peoples admire and love one another. There are, of course, certain instances like the ones my colleague mentioned, but if you look at recent history, thousands of Greeks have come to Germany as immigrants and done very well for themselves, and they are proud of their prosperity, and we are proud of them in Greece.
They have become integrated into German society. Their children are scientists. When they arrived in Germany, most of them were from agricultural areas, and they have achieve very significant results. Also, don’t forget the millions of German tourists who come to Greece every year, and the many Greeks who come as tourists to Germany, with its amazing natural beauty.
The other important thing is that Germany technology is used by Greece perhaps more than by any other country. And German enterprises have contributed to the economic development of Greece.
I won’t enumerate all these things. We need to look at all the very positive things and remedy whatever is negative, and I hope that Greek-German relations – with our desire and that of the two peoples – see even better times ahead. Thank you very much.
G. WESTERWELLE: I agree 200%. I would like to add one point. This is what you forget, Stavros. My teacher at the University, for my PhD, was Professor Tsatsos. So, you can imagine, you will always have a very good personal friend in me and I think this is what counts, that we have a reliable, not only political but also a personal friendship and a partnership and we should never forget where we come from, and we all, all countries in the European Union went, in their histories, through dark and difficult periods and I am absolutely sure we will manage this, it is doable, we will solve the problems, we will give answers to the crisis, and after it, Europe and the European Union will be stronger than before. Thank you.
November 30, 2011